> General Discussions
Lake of Fire question
angie:
Hi all,
Just a few thoughts on souls...
I think that the soul [that can be resurrected] equates to 'mind'
--- Quote --- A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.
--- End quote ---
The Mind is the place where all thoughts, emotions, memory and knowledge are originated/stored. We can't see it, touch it with hands, it doesn't show up on an x-ray, or physically separate it from the body at death. [post-mortem] It is unseen, yet it exists, we all have one. [though I'm prone to misplacing mine from time to time ???]
It lives supported by the brain.[Flesh] We CAN see and feel the brain. We can x-ray, examine it, dissect it and map different areas of it to do with the physical, measurable effects on the body [flesh] Do we know everything about it? Nope. In fact, we are lucky if we know about 20%
When the brain ceases to fuction, so does the mind. Interestingly, the brain cannot survive without oxygen and we get that from the lungs from the air [containing oxygen] that we breathe. The word pneum(o) is the Greek word stem meaning Gas/air [pertaining to the lung]. If we look at the definition of 'Spirit' it is pneum(a)
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.
It was apparently this self same Spirit that in Mar 1:10 "...like a dove descending upon him:"...[Jesus] that drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan for 40 days [v 12 -14]
The question that sprung to my mind at this point was 'Is God in the air?' or at the very least, a component of Him [Oxygen] That thought has some merit to the carnal mind, since, Like God, it is unseen, is everywhere, lives in us [as dissolved oxygen in every tissue in the body] The brain can't live without it since, if oxygen is absent, the brain will DETERIORATE AND DIE, [this starts within 4 minutes] and along with it DIES our mind. If we are starved of oxygen, our brain lapses into unconsciousness,[and no perception] then death follows. When we are DEAD, the oxygen in our tissues is released back into the atmospheric air where it came from. [Is this sounding familiar to anybody yet?]
We NEED it to survive. Plants need it, animals need it, even fish in the sea need it. There are very few micro-organisms that exist with out it [anaerobic-without air]
Oxygen is the food of life, it feeds and nurtures the brain and every other tissue in the body. without the brain, the mind cannot exist. Everything came out from God, including oxygen. I don't believe this is God himself, otherwise, how could we bottle it? But I believe that it is a created spirit of God, out of Him since He created it. He is the owner of it and so it quite rightly returns to 'God who gave it'
Everything living that you can see is is primarily only made because of the presence of oxygen, facilitating growth. Put another way: all things seen, are made from [and the presense of] the unseen. What I can't correlate in my mind is how air, or oxygen, of itself, could compel Jesus into the wilderness unless there was enough of it to actually blow him off his feet and carry him there! ???
It would seem that it has a literal and figurative meaning. [perhaps an angel, who is also a spirit OF God]
A living soul - nephesh
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): ...
I think that this is just what it says. A breathing creature, flesh that uses oxygen, to nourishes and keep alive the brain, that houses the mind. When it dies, it is really dead, All of it, including the mind, since it has no means of sustenance. It cannot exist without the body. It is the invisible mind that can be manipulated, bent shaped and changed according to the experiences we have and the circumstances we find ourselves in. This in turn gives rise to emotions and perceptions and ultimately actions.
We are Told all over scripture, that we are to 'be of one mind' so that we have the mind of Jesus, who has the mind of God, and that when every last one of us is of one mind, God will be all in all.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
In this verse, when talking about the mind of Christ, 'mind' is
G3563
νοῦς
nous
nooce
Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding. Compare G5590.
NOTE. This is different from the word used to describe the mind in other verses not pertaining to the mind of Christ.
The mind also houses our memory. if we are to remember all the lessons taught in this 'afflicted' time in the flesh after resurrection, we need this element, in fact, of all the things pertaining to the flesh in this life, it's the ONLY thing we need since we are undergoing a process of sanctification in readiness NOW for 'that day'.
When we [our minds] are resurrected, the only thing we need to be given, is a spiritual body to house the now developed spiritual mind [of Christ and God].
Well, I seem to have got a bit carried away with this subject! I hope that I haven't added to the confusion :-\
Maybe someone else will 'see' something that they can pick up on to help clarify our understanding.
Angie
x
Laren:
--- Quote from: angie on September 04, 2006, 09:55:58 AM ---Hi all,
Just a few thoughts on souls...
I think that the soul [that can be resurrected] equates to 'mind'
--- Quote --- A thorough study of the word "soul" in the Scriptures proves that it is used of consciousness, feelings, and emotions. Hence, "sensation" is a good word to define its usage.
--- End quote ---
The Mind is the place where all thoughts, emotions, memory and knowledge are originated/stored. We can't see it, touch it with hands, it doesn't show up on an x-ray, or physically separate it from the body at death. [post-mortem] It is unseen, yet it exists, we all have one. [though I'm prone to misplacing mine from time to time ???]
It lives supported by the brain.[Flesh] We CAN see and feel the brain. We can x-ray, examine it, dissect it and map different areas of it to do with the physical, measurable effects on the body [flesh] Do we know everything about it? Nope. In fact, we are lucky if we know about 20%
When the brain ceases to fuction, so does the mind. Interestingly, the brain cannot survive without oxygen and we get that from the lungs from the air [containing oxygen] that we breathe. The word pneum(o) is the Greek word stem meaning Gas/air [pertaining to the lung]. If we look at the definition of 'Spirit' it is pneum(a)
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind.
It was apparently this self same Spirit that in Mar 1:10 "...like a dove descending upon him:"...[Jesus] that drove Him into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan for 40 days [v 12 -14]
The question that sprung to my mind at this point was 'Is God in the air?' or at the very least, a component of Him [Oxygen] That thought has some merit to the carnal mind, since, Like God, it is unseen, is everywhere, lives in us [as dissolved oxygen in every tissue in the body] The brain can't live without it since, if oxygen is absent, the brain will DETERIORATE AND DIE, [this starts within 4 minutes] and along with it DIES our mind. If we are starved of oxygen, our brain lapses into unconsciousness,[and no perception] then death follows. When we are DEAD, the oxygen in our tissues is released back into the atmospheric air where it came from. [Is this sounding familiar to anybody yet?]
We NEED it to survive. Plants need it, animals need it, even fish in the sea need it. There are very few micro-organisms that exist with out it [anaerobic-without air]
Oxygen is the food of life, it feeds and nurtures the brain and every other tissue in the body. without the brain, the mind cannot exist. Everything came out from God, including oxygen. I don't believe this is God himself, otherwise, how could we bottle it? But I believe that it is a created spirit of God, out of Him since He created it. He is the owner of it and so it quite rightly returns to 'God who gave it'
Everything living that you can see is is primarily only made because of the presence of oxygen, facilitating growth. Put another way: all things seen, are made from [and the presense of] the unseen. What I can't correlate in my mind is how air, or oxygen, of itself, could compel Jesus into the wilderness unless there was enough of it to actually blow him off his feet and carry him there! ???
It would seem that it has a literal and figurative meaning. [perhaps an angel, who is also a spirit OF God]
A living soul - nephesh
H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): ...
I think that this is just what it says. A breathing creature, flesh that uses oxygen, to nourishes and keep alive the brain, that houses the mind. When it dies, it is really dead, All of it, including the mind, since it has no means of sustenance. It cannot exist without the body. It is the invisible mind that can be manipulated, bent shaped and changed according to the experiences we have and the circumstances we find ourselves in. This in turn gives rise to emotions and perceptions and ultimately actions.
We are Told all over scripture, that we are to 'be of one mind' so that we have the mind of Jesus, who has the mind of God, and that when every last one of us is of one mind, God will be all in all.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
In this verse, when talking about the mind of Christ, 'mind' is
G3563
νοῦς
nous
nooce
Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding. Compare G5590.
NOTE. This is different from the word used to describe the mind in other verses not pertaining to the mind of Christ.
The mind also houses our memory. if we are to remember all the lessons taught in this 'afflicted' time in the flesh after resurrection, we need this element, in fact, of all the things pertaining to the flesh in this life, it's the ONLY thing we need since we are undergoing a process of sanctification in readiness NOW for 'that day'.
When we [our minds] are resurrected, the only thing we need to be given, is a spiritual body to house the now developed spiritual mind [of Christ and God].
Well, I seem to have got a bit carried away with this subject! I hope that I haven't added to the confusion :-\
Maybe someone else will 'see' something that they can pick up on to help clarify our understanding.
Angie
x
--- End quote ---
Thanks Angie, that was good. Now, if one is not an overcomer in this life, wouldn't you say they never had the mind of Christ. They had their carnal mind, which is dependent upon flesh and spirit to be alive.
At there physical death, their mind dies, as well as the flesh. The spirit returns to the father. At resurrection, and judgment, the carnal mind is resurrected and purged in LOF for these people.
My question is, what body will the carnal mind have after resurrection for these non believers, in order to be alive again; as you pointed out, it needs flesh and spirit to be alive??
ned:
--- Quote from: Laren on September 04, 2006, 11:30:56 AM ---My question is, what body will the carnal mind have after resurrection for these non believers, in order to be alive again; as you pointed out, it needs flesh and spirit to be alive??
--- End quote ---
After resurrection, when Jesus will have delivered up the kingdom to God is when ALL will be reconciled to Him and we will be one in Him.
1Cor15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"
...
1Cor15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body..."
We shall then be ALL (non-believers, called, chosen, everyone) like Him, who is in the image of His father, invisible.
Hi Laren, have I understood your question correctly, in the way I perceived it to be, are my comments relevant?
These are my thoughts.
Love,
Marie
angie:
Hi Laren
I agree with Marie, It will need to be raised (in?) a spiritual body, even the still yet carnally minded. They will have to go on through the [spiritual] lake of fire to be purged of this before being presented spotlessly clean[sanctified] to God. Our minds aren't really flesh when we are alive on this earth, but it is OF the flesh and in the flesh till we Die. Some of us go through the lake of fire experience now, because our minds have 'died' to the flesh and are a 'new creation' IN CHRIST [spiritually maturing so our mind is as His is was and will be] Hope that helps. :)
Angie
x
Kat:
Hi Laren and Angie,
I think if we keep putting our 'minds' together on this,
we will get it figured out :)
1Co 15:42 So also the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;
What I get from this verse is that all will have a spiritual body when resurrected.
Ray's article - 5, A scriptural explanation of the Lake of Fire---------------------------------
A SPIRITUAL MATCH
In Rev. 20:11 we read of "a great white throne." In Verse 12 the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books are opened, and God presents us with a double witness that "every man’s work" shall be judged by "fire":
"and the dead judged… ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS," (Rev. 20:11). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
"…they were judged every man ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS." (Rev. 20:13). And they are judged in "FIRE," Vers. 14, 15 & 21:8.
Now then, is there another Scripture that speaks of the judgment of "every man’s WORK?" and every man’s work judged by "FIRE?" Yes, there is, and only one other:
"EVERY MAN’S WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13a).
"…And the FIRE shall try EVERY MAN’S WORK…." (I Cor. 3:13b).
We have now located our "two witnesses." These are the only two places in the entirety of the Bible that speak of:
"EVERY MAN…,"
"Every man’s WORK…,"
"Every man’s work, JUDGED…MANIFESTED, DECLARED, REVEALED, AND TRIED...,"
"Every man’s work judged…tried BY FIRE."
We have proven by SEVEN proofs that the lake of fire in Rev. 20 is not physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL. We shall now prove conclusively that the fire of I Cor. 3 is likewise, not physical, material, or literal, but SPIRITUAL as well. These two sets of Scriptures will explain each other. Remember that we learned there are two groups of people to be judged: (1) The whole world in the day of judging (Acts 17:31), and (2) The house of God NOW (I Pet. 4:17 & I Cor. 11:32). Since God is no respecter of persons, He judges both groups by the same means.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This talks about our 'works' being burned up.
So I'm thinking the soul--mind--memory is what is raised with the spiritual body.
The carnal mind is the 'stubble, hay, and wood' or works that was learned while in the fleah,
that must be burned out, during the Lake of fire.
1Co 3:12 And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble,
1Co 3:13 each one's work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each one's work as to what kind it is.
1Co 3:14 If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
Hi Marie,
Only the few chosen, the elect, will be in the first resurrection at Christ's return. Then comes the Great White Throne judgment, when the rest of Mankind will be resurrected to judgment and be cast into the Lake of Fire.
Angie,
That oxygen is a component of God's Spirit was a good analogy
Luk 4:1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led in the Spirit in the wilderness
This gives me a better understanding of how Jesus was 'led' into the wilderness.
Hope this helps,
I'm learning a lot here myself.
Kat
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