> General Discussions
Sign of the Son of Man
Porter:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on April 08, 2023, 10:22:12 PM ---Excellent Porter.
Just to add. Luke 11:29-32….. This generation is an evil generation. It seeks for
a sign , but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.
The sigh of Jonah is a parable.
Ray explains it in an email in the forum titled… Jesus was three days and three
nights in the heart of the earth.
Posted by Dennis.
--- End quote ---
That parable you quoted was foremost in my mind as I was scouring Ray's paper's for an answer to Diane's question. I thought I fully understood “the sign of Jonah”, until I came across another quote from Ray while looking for an answer to Diane's question. The part I understood about the sign of Jonah was that it signified the DEPTH of Jesus' suffering. Ray explains further by stating it was also a sign of Christ's Messiahship and what that means for all of humanity. Something I missed the first time around.
https://bible-truths.com/email6.htm
Satan, Religion, the World, our own Carnal Mind--all LEAD US INTO CAPTIVITY, hence we become CAPTIVES. Jesus Christ took ALL CAPTIVITY--ALL THAT CAPTURES, and made a CAPTIVE OF IT ALL. Just how did He do this? (1) “He also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PART OF THE EARTH" (Eph. 4:9). This "descending into the lower part [the very HEART] of the earth" was the very sign of Christ's Messiahship! "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man [Christ] in three days and three nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH" (Matt. 12:40). Contrary to what even I used to believe, this verse is not speaking of the "length" of time that Jesus would be buried, but rather the DEPTH OF SUFFERING He would endure during that three day period of Passover when they crucified our Lord. (Remember how He sweat BLOOD in the Garden)? The trials and temptations in the desert with Satan cannot be compared with the suffering of those three days of Passover that Jesus went through. So what did it all accomplish? EVERYTHING! John 16:33, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have PEACE. In the world ye shall have tribulation: BUT BE OF GOOD CHEER; I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD"!!! JESUS CHRIST LEAD CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE!!! He overcame and CONQUERED ALL ENEMIES, including DEATH ITSELF! And truly, He now has GREAT AND MARVELOUS GIFTS TO GIVE UNTO ALL MANKIND, not the least of which is I Tim. 2:4, and 4:10!-------------
Not completely related to Diane's question, but I thought it was such good news nonetheless. Thanks for mentioning it Pamela!
--- Quote from: ralph on April 09, 2023, 01:15:11 AM ---"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31)."
I believe Ray spoke about this in one of his videos. The Sun, which is a symbol of God, no longer gives its light. The moon, which reflects the light of the sun, a symbol of the church, turned to blood when it began to murder God’s people, i.e., the stoning of Stephen.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I remember that also, Ralph. To be honest, it always kind of confused me because Ray said or implied it was a prophecy of a literal event. I mean I can see it that way too, so maybe it was one of them multi layered prophecies, where it's a parable as well. Because I can definitely see the parable too. However, wouldn't this go against another of Ray's statements where he said, “parables are never literally true, but they are always spiritually true”? This is why I'm kind of confused.
--- Quote from: HoneyLamb56 on April 09, 2023, 09:46:25 PM ---Thanks Porter...now makes sense to me
Diane
--- End quote ---
Not a problem, Diane, I'm glad it makes sense to you. I think the following parable from that chapter in Mathew is a great third witness. It's also a reminder that all parables mean the same thing.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch [Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches] is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves[Rev 22:2 and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.], ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Ever seen a fig tree? It looks more like a collection of vines. Don't you also love how Jesus calls the fig tree a "him"? ;)
I apologize for the rambling, but I think this is all getting to my head. Thankfully, we can know these things through His Spirit working through Ray's papers.
Musterseed:
Thank you Porter.
Yes . The heart of the earth is the depth of suffering. Earthy Adam.
The heart( depth ) of the earth iIS the parable.
from Ray in the Email I suggested.
“The heart of the earth is the very depth of the flesh.
The flesh of man is of the earth, earthy Paul tells us.”
“ Jesus called three days and three nights in the heart of the earth the Sign of Jonah.
Jonah was not dead at all. Jonah went through a living hell, if you will.
Are the three days and three nights being compared with three days and three nights
of Jesus? No, no that is not the point of the comparison.
Jonah: AS Jonah was three days and three nights in the Whales Belly
Jesus: SO shall the Son of Man BE in the heart of the earth.
There is your comparison.
There is your sign.
There is your parable.”
So when Diane said, it sounds like they would first see the sign,
it came to me that the first sign would be to be human, earthy, man
which began with Adam. The dust of the earth that Satan dines on.
This evil generation seeks for a sign , but no sign will be given except the sign
Of Jonah, to be of the earth. They don’t know what that means. The physical
is all they know. They live by sight. We live by faith.
And we know that the Kingdom does not come with observation. I hope I am
making this more clear. I need God’s help. 💕
May Our Lord give us the endurance and wisdom we need to overcome
and to find us worthy to escape the things coming upon the earth.
In Christ , Pamela
Musterseed:
Here is a wonderful scripture.
Gal. 6:17…… From now on let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my
body the marks( sign ) of Jesus.
marks.G4742, stigma, to stick, that is prick, a mark incised or punched
( for recognition of ownership) that is scars of service, mark.
Dictionary…. Mark… bruise, crush, stripe, stigma.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: Porter on April 09, 2023, 11:46:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: ralph on April 09, 2023, 01:15:11 AM ---"And I will give MIRACLES IN THE HEAVENS above, And signs on the earth, Blood and fire and pillars of smoke, The sun shall be turned to darkness, And the moon to blood (2:30-31), BEFORE the coming of the DAY OF THE LORD, the great and fearful day" (2:30-31)."
I believe Ray spoke about this in one of his videos. The Sun, which is a symbol of God, no longer gives its light. The moon, which reflects the light of the sun, a symbol of the church, turned to blood when it began to murder God’s people, i.e., the stoning of Stephen.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I remember that also, Ralph. To be honest, it always kind of confused me because Ray said or implied it was a prophecy of a literal event. I mean I can see it that way too, so maybe it was one of them multi layered prophecies, where it's a parable as well. Because I can definitely see the parable too. However, wouldn't this go against another of Ray's statements where he said, “parables are never literally true, but they are always spiritually true”? This is why I'm kind of confused.
--- End quote ---
The stoning of Stephen was a literal event. Adding, to me--since His elect were chosen from the "foundation of the world"--"we" needn't wait until our eyes are opened for this persecution to commence. "We've" lived it in Babylon. We just hadn't seen it yet--and to whatever degree we may have seen it, we didn't recognize it for what it was, and we may have even participated in it both towards ourselves and others. Saul stood by at the stoning of Stephen. Before he was Paul--but not before he was chosen.
If he's opened our eyes, that TOO (the un-closing) is a literal event--a thing that happened.
Porter:
That helps Pamela, thank you!
I think I get it now, Dave. Thanks!
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