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"Look,here is the Christ"
Porter:
There isn't a person in the history of the world that hasn't been deceived by Satan into believing that “the man of lawlessness” (also known as “the beast”) is a powerful god able to thwart the will of his or her Creator.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2Th 2:3 No one should be deluding you by any method, for, should not the apostasy be coming first and the man of lawlessness be unveiled, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?
2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that, still being with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now you are aware what is detaining, for him to be unveiled in his own era.”
2Th 2:7 For the secret of lawlessness is already operating. Only when the present detainer may be coming to be out of the midst,
2Th 2:8 then will be unveiled the lawless one (whom the Lord Jesus will despatch with the spirit of His mouth and will discard by the advent of His presence),
2Th 2:9 whose presence is in accord with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles”
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Unless and until Jesus reveals the lawless one in each believer in every generation, and then destroys him by the spirit of His mouth and by the advent of His presence, Satan will continue to deceive them into believing “he is a god sitting in the Temple of God”. What greater sign and wonder is there than to say, “who is like the beast, and who can make war with him?”. (Rev_13:4)
indianabob:
--- Quote from: octoberose on April 21, 2023, 02:27:49 AM ---Well, I think the point is, where are the signs and wonders? I don’t think that has come yet.
--- End quote ---
You are correct, the time is close but not yet.
The signs that deceive others will be very strong signs convincing even the most intelligent of the non-believers.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
zvezda:
--- Quote from: octoberose on April 21, 2023, 02:27:49 AM ---Well, I think the point is, where are the signs and wonders? I don’t think that has come yet.
--- End quote ---
Of course it has not come, and never will. As Ray said: "Thank God that it is not possible." Why would you expect something that's not possible to come?
--- Quote from: indianabob on April 21, 2023, 03:52:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: octoberose on April 21, 2023, 02:27:49 AM ---Well, I think the point is, where are the signs and wonders? I don’t think that has come yet.
--- End quote ---
You are correct, the time is close but not yet.
The signs that deceive others will be very strong signs convincing even the most intelligent of the non-believers.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
--- End quote ---
The OP is asking about signs and wonders from a false christ, I don't think Rev 13 is about false christ.
Rev 13 is about the beast, and who is the "beast"?
https://bible-truths.com/lake13.html
As I am now at the end of this Part XIII, I don't want to close without revealing just who it is that constitutes the wild beast of Revelation 13 and the lawless one of II Thes. 2. I did title this Installment: Who is the Beast? And so I will tell you.
"So okay Ray, enough, TELL US WHO THE BEAST IS. Who? Tell us WHO?"
The "beast" is you!
However, with all the AI and 3D hologram technologies, it's not hard to create fake great signs such as making fire come down from the sky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmpe1uYTDgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKnHek04Ouw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRtEXQSAxJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q12Rqe8zMlY
There's also a conspiracy theory that NASA's secret "Project Blue Beam" will be used for creating an artificial fake second coming Of Jesus Christ. Well, who knows.... a lot of past conspiracy theories turned out to be true anyway...
But NASA is not a false christ or false prophet, they never preach anything about Christ. According to Matt 24:24, it's NOT possible for a false christ or false prophet to perform great signs and wonders.
https://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html
"And MANY false prophets shall rise, and shall DECEIVE MANY. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible [Thank God that it is not possible...] they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:3, 11, & 24)
indianabob:
--- Quote from: zvezda on April 21, 2023, 06:16:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: octoberose on April 21, 2023, 02:27:49 AM ---Well, I think the point is, where are the signs and wonders? I don’t think that has come yet.
--- End quote ---
Of course it has not come, and never will. As Ray said: "Thank God that it is not possible." Why would you expect something that's not possible to come?
--- Quote from: indianabob on April 21, 2023, 03:52:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: octoberose on April 21, 2023, 02:27:49 AM ---Well, I think the point is, where are the signs and wonders? I don’t think that has come yet.
--- End quote ---
You are correct, the time is close but not yet.
The signs that deceive others will be very strong signs convincing even the most intelligent of the non-believers.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
--- End quote ---
The OP is asking about signs and wonders from a false christ, I don't think Rev 13 is about false christ.
Rev 13 is about the beast, and who is the "beast"?
https://bible-truths.com/lake13.html
As I am now at the end of this Part XIII, I don't want to close without revealing just who it is that constitutes the wild beast of Revelation 13 and the lawless one of II Thes. 2. I did title this Installment: Who is the Beast? And so I will tell you.
"So okay Ray, enough, TELL US WHO THE BEAST IS. Who? Tell us WHO?"
The "beast" is you!
However, with all the AI and 3D hologram technologies, it's not hard to create fake great signs such as making fire come down from the sky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmpe1uYTDgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKnHek04Ouw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRtEXQSAxJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q12Rqe8zMlY
There's also a conspiracy theory that NASA's secret "Project Blue Beam" will be used for creating an artificial fake second coming Of Jesus Christ. Well, who knows.... a lot of past conspiracy theories turned out to be true anyway...
But NASA is not a false christ or false prophet, they never preach anything about Christ. According to Matt 24:24, it's NOT possible for a false christ or false prophet to perform great signs and wonders.
https://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html
"And MANY false prophets shall rise, and shall DECEIVE MANY. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible [Thank God that it is not possible...] they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:3, 11, & 24)
--- End quote ---
= =
Friend zvezda,
Subject to correction I think it actually says that the elect cannot be deceived by the great signs and wonders.
Not that the signs and wonders are NOT possible.
So Satan's messengers will be able to call down fire from heaven and other signs such as giving life to the dead.
And all of these wonders that are intended to deceive are according to God's intention to lead people astray who do not believe.
God uses Satan to carry out God's overall plan and to deceive the majority.
Satan could not do his evil if God had not intended it to happen.
Bob
zvezda:
Hi Bob,
I think Matt 24:24 is saying it's NOT possible for the false prophets to perform great signs and wonders, and this (not having the ability to perform signs and wonders) is exactly the reason why they can't deceive the elect.
The whole chapter of Rev 13 is talking about the wild beast, it's not talking about satan's minions.
Unless you think the wild beast is satan's minion and disagree with Ray about who the beast is.
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