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Author Topic: Israel  (Read 9959 times)

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octoberose

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Israel
« on: October 08, 2023, 09:27:45 PM »

I canít help but think what is happening now has all been written down in advance.  Maybe itís not - maybe I shouldnít read current events into prophecy but really what is prophecy for ?  I wish, and have always been sad that Ray didnít live longer to tell us more of what he saw in scripture- but God only gave him so long on this earth. How ever  you see it, what is happening now is very devastating and I am not sure that other countries wonít be sucked into this.  Is that political ? I donít mean it to me.  Sitting here without being aware seems inadvisable to me.
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indianabob

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Re: Israel
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2023, 01:36:27 AM »

octoberose,
You make a valid point. God has planned all things before He began and there are no rewrites of the play. All things will proceed as determined in advance with a foreknown outcome.
The object of the fighting in the region of Israel is to draw the most powerful armies into the region so that God can show his great power when he destroys the very best that mankind can build to conquer their neighbors. Then when God has the attention of the whole world He will send His son to rule with a rod of iron and make enduring peace.
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Porter

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Re: Israel
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2023, 04:22:35 AM »

what is prophecy for ? 


Maybe it's as simple as this?

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17  so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Thayer Definition:1)
prophecy
1a) a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; especially by foretelling future events
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 04:33:10 AM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

ralph

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Re: Israel
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2023, 12:44:01 PM »

I canít help but think what is happening now has all been written down in advance.  Maybe itís not - maybe I shouldnít read current events into prophecy but really what is prophecy for ?  I wish, and have always been sad that Ray didnít live longer to tell us more of what he saw in scripture- but God only gave him so long on this earth. How ever  you see it, what is happening now is very devastating and I am not sure that other countries wonít be sucked into this.  Is that political ? I donít mean it to me.  Sitting here without being aware seems inadvisable to me.

Yes, it has been written down in advance.  Everything according to his will:

Isaiah 46:10-11
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done
,
Saying, ĎMy counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,í
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
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octoberose

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Re: Israel
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2023, 05:21:46 PM »

And so we wait and remain faithful while we wait.  Thank you.
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mike kyner

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Re: Israel
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2023, 11:37:45 AM »

always thought i was supposed to know everything but i'm slowly learning differently
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Porter

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Re: Israel
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2023, 04:40:52 PM »

I feel ya mike. As weird as this sounds, I asked God about it the other day and asked Him to show me. Not that I thought I was someone special that He had to show me anything, mind you. Here are some passages that came to mind either way.

Php 3:10  My goal is to know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
Php 3:11  assuming that I will somehow reach the resurrection from among the dead.
Php 3:12  Not that I have already reached the goal or am already fully mature, but I make every effort to take hold of it because I also have been taken hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13  Brothers, I do not consider myself to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead,
Php 3:14  I pursue as my goal the prize promised by God's heavenly call in Christ Jesus.


To me, this goes hand in hand with this next verse, especially the bolded part from Php 3:13. Paul is referring to all that he once believed and lived for when he was Saul, the Pharisee.

Rev 18:4  Then I heard another voice from heaven: Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins, or receive any of her plagues.

Another witness.


Php 3:5  circumcised the eighth day; of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6  as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to the righteousness that is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7  But everything that was a gain to me, I have considered to be a loss because of Christ.
Php 3:8  More than that, I also consider everything to be a loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. Because of Him I have suffered the loss of all things and consider them filth, so that I may gain Christ

Made me wonder how much of my previous knowledge of ďprophecyĒ is worth keeping or even true? What happens when Christ is revealed or made known to me? It must be something, as Paul thought it was worth pursuing above all else.

But yeah, the passages above seem different from when I first read them.
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

octoberose

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Re: Israel
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2023, 06:22:05 PM »

Truth be told I have felt  things in the past week I just didnít expect. I have been all in that the people who committed the killings and rapes in Israel just be dead. Just kill them all - Iím perfectly fine with that.  I donít seem to mind that Israel is bombing Gaza. And then Iím wondering what Iím going to accept as behavior or beliefs in my life when Iím a God follower. Truly, I donít have an easy answer because Iím not a a believer in letting people slaughter your children.  But I donít believe in revenge either.  I wanted to be defiant and angry, but defiance and anger get you nowhere .  I asked my husband what the early Christianís would have done ( I already knew the answer butÖ) and he said they would accept death. 
 I donít know how some of you are feeling but I donít see that a war in Israel is just a coincidence .  I believe we are in the last days , and this is all part of it.   I donít want to be on the wrong side of God because Iím outraged.  I think I need a little help in dealing with it all.
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Porter

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Re: Israel
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2023, 02:30:49 AM »

I can relate to being angry and the outrage you are feeling, I really can. Just thinking about the fact that MORE killing is the only answer to them infuriates me, but I didn't always care people were killing each other. Then I remembered it's supposed to be this way for now. In this way, it seems my senses are being exercised.

Heb 5:14  But solid food is for the mature--for those whose senses have been trained to distinguish between good and evil.


I don't believe in coincidences myself, as God has determined a time for everything we experience.

Ecc 3:1 For everything there is a stated time, And a season for every event under the heavens:


Ecc 3:10  I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised [Hebrew: humbled] in it.


It never seems to stop. I often fail in trying to discern good from evil, whether in the world or in myself, but God always reminds me He is still in total control. I think this is how faith is exercised and improved. We can know this because how many in the world believe God creates and control's evil? How many believe, whether we stand or fall, it is ultimately because of God? I can't help but come to the conclusion the world is a training ground, just as Ray said, and now I know why Ray said that. I, personally, couldn't have known it unless I first experienced constantly failing and constantly being made to stand up and try again, over and over and over once more.

Joh 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


It's so easy to get down on ourselves and the world. Hence, the warning.

Mat 13:22  Now the one sown among the thorns--this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Maybe it's only a problem when we lean onto the understanding and knowledge of our carnal minds and false prophets?

Luk 6:24  But woe to you who are rich, because you have received your comfort.

Luk 6:25  Woe to you who are full now, because you will be hungry. Woe to you who are laughing now, because you will mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26  Woe to you when all people speak well of you, because this is the way their ancestors used to treat the false prophets.In light of the parable above, this next verse makes so much more sense now, doesn't it?
1Co 10:7  Don't become idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and got up to play.

It's all one.

Mat 24:37  As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be.

Mat 24:38  For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark.

You're right rose, these are ďthe last daysĒ, but would you agree we've been in the last days since the Day of Pentecost over 2000 years ago? Has Jesus not been gathering His Elect into the Ark since then? What is Noah's flood but a type or shadow of spiritual baptism? This is what Peter said on the Day of Pentecost, when the gift of the Holy Spirit was pored out on the disciples.

Act 2:38  "Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ray always said how Jesus comes to every believer in every generation quickly. But how many believed his report?

I know this stuff isn't easy to understand, so believe me when I say I'm often surprised with what little I understand at times.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2023, 02:39:17 AM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

arion

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Re: Israel
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2023, 01:49:39 PM »


 I donít know how some of you are feeling but I donít see that a war in Israel is just a coincidence .  I believe we are in the last days , and this is all part of it.   I donít want to be on the wrong side of God because Iím outraged.  I think I need a little help in dealing with it all.


These days weíre written before the foundation of the earth and have to come to pass the way God knows that they must and that also includes the slaughter of the innocents.  Even in the old testament at times God told the children of Israel to totally wipe out their enemies men, woman and children.  I recoil at that of course as we all do.  Some things are well above our pay grade even though I am beginning to grasp the necessity of some of these things.


What I often remind myself of is that Jesus is the savior of the world, he will save the world including the Hamas and Islamic animals and but by the grace of God go I.  And if there was a better way for God to accomplish his will then he would do it that way.


A audio teaching that Ray did you might find helpful here as you and I might have been born into one of those radical Islamic families;


http://bible-truths.com/audio/N05%20Guilty_of_ALL.mp3
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Musterseed

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Re: Israel
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2023, 03:09:29 PM »

From Ö the Christian hell is a Christian Hoax
Quote from RayÖ. ď Godís word forces us to go with the facts or we will be
among those who despise the word of God.Ē

God tells Isaiah how our downfall will begin if we donít heed his warning.

Isa 30:13 is a picture of total destruction and devastation. But what sin have we committed? Why is God angry with our nation? Hereís the answerÖ Isa. 30:8-12

Are you guilty of despising the word of God? Would you rather be lulled to sleep
and complacency by the pernicious , pious platitudes of your pastors and priests?

Read my paper The Day of the Great Slaughter, hopefully it will help you to
understand these prophecies regarding our nation. That mass murder event
was not the horror described in Isa.30. It was merely the prelude, the warning
shot over the bow so to speak. The real event is yet future but itís on its way.

Many Americans actually believe that each day and in every way we are getting
better. ( I donít know when Ray wrote this paper but I donít think Americans
think that anymore.)

Where is our society free from crime, greed ,corruption and deceit ? Where?

Well itís all about to come down and come down very hard. But as Isaiah stated,
Who believes our report?
End of a few excerpts from the hell hoax paper.

What Jesus saw when His Father sent Titus and the Roman army to Jerusalem to do,
it grieved Him and He wept.
Like Arion saidÖ this is the best way and itís our Fathers will. We must justify
the sovereignty of our God for the well-being of all humanity.

There is coming a resurrection of the just and the unjust. All these people
will be resurrected and judged and made into the image of their creator.
Our families will all be blessed. For the first time in all history, humanity will
be truly loved and happy. I think about this all the time and pray for Gods will
to be done even though seeing the news of the sufferings is suffocating at times.

Especially the little children. Octoberose, I feel your heart. You know what though.
when I think about what else is about to happen to this world and that we should
pray to be counted worthy to escape these things , then I think that those who are
dying are safe in the grave until resurrection when they will be awoken and
judged in the loving arms of our merciful Lord and His Spiritual sons and daughters.

Our children. All children will have wonderful lives along with their families all
the way back to our first parents. Itís very reassuring. Flesh and blood cannot inherit
the Kingdom of God. Not even the flesh and blood of little children . Thatís one
of the facts we are to believe. It is scripture. I Remember Ray saying ď it
would be nice if there were another way, but no, it is through judgement.

I pray for wisdom and endurance and that our Heavenly Father will increase
our faith to keep the unity of spirit and to give us strength to continue in His word.
God loves us because we love Jesus who suffered tremendously for all people.
All people are Gods people. God will see us through. He promised and He never
breaks His promise.
In ChristÖ Pamela 💕
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ralph

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Re: Israel
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2023, 04:12:59 PM »

I can relate to being angry and the outrage you are feeling, I really can. Just thinking about the fact that MORE killing is the only answer to them infuriates me, but I didn't always care people were killing each other. Then I remembered it's supposed to be this way for now. In this way, it seems my senses are being exercised.

Heb 5:14  But solid food is for the mature--for those whose senses have been trained to distinguish between good and evil.


I don't believe in coincidences myself, as God has determined a time for everything we experience.

Ecc 3:1 For everything there is a stated time, And a season for every event under the heavens:


Ecc 3:10  I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised [Hebrew: humbled] in it.


It never seems to stop. I often fail in trying to discern good from evil, whether in the world or in myself, but God always reminds me He is still in total control. I think this is how faith is exercised and improved. We can know this because how many in the world believe God creates and control's evil? How many believe, whether we stand or fall, it is ultimately because of God? I can't help but come to the conclusion the world is a training ground, just as Ray said, and now I know why Ray said that. I, personally, couldn't have known it unless I first experienced constantly failing and constantly being made to stand up and try again, over and over and over once more.

Joh 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.


It's so easy to get down on ourselves and the world. Hence, the warning.

Mat 13:22  Now the one sown among the thorns--this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Maybe it's only a problem when we lean onto the understanding and knowledge of our carnal minds and false prophets?

Luk 6:24  But woe to you who are rich, because you have received your comfort.

Luk 6:25  Woe to you who are full now, because you will be hungry. Woe to you who are laughing now, because you will mourn and weep.
Luk 6:26  Woe to you when all people speak well of you, because this is the way their ancestors used to treat the false prophets.In light of the parable above, this next verse makes so much more sense now, doesn't it?
1Co 10:7  Don't become idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and got up to play.

It's all one.

Mat 24:37  As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be.

Mat 24:38  For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark.

You're right rose, these are ďthe last daysĒ, but would you agree we've been in the last days since the Day of Pentecost over 2000 years ago? Has Jesus not been gathering His Elect into the Ark since then? What is Noah's flood but a type or shadow of spiritual baptism? This is what Peter said on the Day of Pentecost, when the gift of the Holy Spirit was pored out on the disciples.

Act 2:38  "Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ray always said how Jesus comes to every believer in every generation quickly. But how many believed his report?

I know this stuff isn't easy to understand, so believe me when I say I'm often surprised with what little I understand at times.

Amen bro. Well said.
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octoberose

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Re: Israel
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2023, 12:22:18 AM »

thank you for the replies.  I appreciate the care you took to write.  And I do think we are in the last of the last days.  We may not know the day but the signs are there.  I understand Revelations was a vision- but everything stands for something and it was  written for our benefit so we wouldnít be in the dark.  Thereís a lot of reasons, but suffice to say the war in Israel breaking out right when it did is a clue.  Donít forget, Over twenty years ago Ray thought that 9/11 was something to pay attention to.
 Be that as it may, the brutality of what happened last week is a lot to bear  even from far off .
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indianabob

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Re: Israel
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2023, 03:04:25 PM »

thank you for the replies.  I appreciate the care you took to write.  And I do think we are in the last of the last days.  We may not know the day but the signs are there.  I understand Revelations was a vision- but everything stands for something and it was  written for our benefit so we wouldnít be in the dark.  Thereís a lot of reasons, but suffice to say the war in Israel breaking out right when it did is a clue.  Donít forget, Over twenty years ago Ray thought that 9/11 was something to pay attention to.
=
=
 Be that as it may, the brutality of what happened last week is a lot to bear  even from far off .

Agree ... but we ain't seen nothing yet.  :-\

The attack on Israel, as traumatic as it was will pale in comparison to the full measure all out destruction yet to come.
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Porter

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Re: Israel
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2023, 07:20:28 PM »

Octoberose, I feel your heart. You know what though.
when I think about what else is about to happen to this world and that we should
pray to be counted worthy to escape these things , then I think that those who are
dying are safe in the grave until resurrection when they will be awoken and
judged in the loving arms of our merciful Lord and His Spiritual sons and daughters.
I'm not picking on you or anything, Pamela, but I just wanted to zero in on the statement you made above to Rose that I quoted. Are you referring to this parable?


Luk 21:34  "Be on your guard, so that your minds are not dulled from carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, or that day will come on you unexpectedly


Luk 21:35  like a trap. For it will come on all who live on the face of the whole earth.


Luk 21:36  But be alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man."


Here's another witness that says the same thing.


1Pe 5:8  Be sober! Be on the alert! Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour.


Here's another witness to consider.


1Pe 4:3  For there has already been enough time spent in doing the will of the pagans: carrying on in unrestrained behavior, evil desires, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and lawless idolatry.


1Pe 4:4  In regard to this, they are surprised that you don't plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation--and they slander you.


1Pe 4:5  They will give an account to the One who stands ready to judge the living and the dead.


1Pe 4:6  For this reason the gospel was also preached to those who are now dead [Rom 6:11  Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.], so that, although they might be judged by men in the fleshly realm, they might live by God in the spiritual realm.


1Pe 4:7  Now the end of all things is near; therefore, be clear-headed and disciplined for prayer.


Are parables ever literally true? If not, do we at least have a witness that says the opposite of what the church teaches (read: pre-tribulation rapture theory) but also harmonizes with the verses cited above?


Joh 17:15  I am not praying that You take them out of the world but that You protect them from the evil one.


I have many questions; some I know the answer to, some I don't, so bear with me. Part of my reasoning for the questions is to provoke thought and find confirmation for the things I believe to be true. Another reason for the questions is simply because I'm not completely sure about the answers I have swirling around in my head. Many of my questions stem from the assumption that you've read Ray's papers, so if it doesn't make sense, then don't worry about it. I already know what the church believes and teaches, and it is depressing news. The kind of depressing news that makes me want to hide and go to sleep because it's nothing but bad news. It's easy to get lulled to sleep by it, so it most definitely is like a trap too. I'm not saying that to be sarcastic, as it is precisely what I did in the past whenever something in life overwhelmed me because I didn't know how to deal with it. Anyhow, on to the questions.


What is this warning about a trap that we must be aware of, and what is it exactly that we should be escaping that Jesus is talking about? Isn't the Elect escaping the day of the Lord, the Great White Throne Judgment in the Lake of Fire? What do Jesus and 1Peter mean when they say to be "sober"?  What exactly is Noah's flood a type and shadow of? Does the flood of Noah represent our baptism or the world's baptism? Is it both? Did Noah and his family die in the flood? Or were Noah and his family already dead to the world and its ways when they endured many years by obeying the Lord and building an Ark? Who do Noah and his family represent spiritually? Who do the people in the flood that got swept away represent?


Does this following passage from Hebrews mean anything to anyone in relation to what Jesus said in His parable concerning the world?


Heb 12:25  See that you do not reject the One who speaks; for if they did not escape when they rejected Him who warned them on earth, even less will we if we turn away from Him who warns us from heaven.


Heb 12:26  His voice shook the earth at that time, but now He has promised, Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also heaven.


Heb 12:27  Now this expression, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of what can be shaken--that is, created things--so that what is not shaken might remain.


Heb 12:28  Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us hold on to grace. By it, we may serve God acceptably, with reverence and awe;


Heb 12:29  for our God is a consuming fire.


I know these are a lot of questions, and I don't expect anyone to answer them, but here they are in case you can or even want to. I have a lot more questions and scripture to go with them, but I don't want to spam this thread too much.
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Dynamo54

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Re: Israel
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2023, 08:05:32 PM »

I have been following this thread like many. The last few days/weeks I have been asking the Father what is going on! It is always hard for me to know what to think about world events ever since reading and understanding that Ray said the WHOLE book of Revelation was symbolic.

I have seen some commenters referring to different passages in Revelations. Are we to assume that things we see today are part of those ďsymbolicĒ prophecies? If the whole of Revelations is symbolic, or speaking in symbols (and I believe Ray here), how could we possibly try to match what we are see happening to specific prophecies?

I donít have any answers except that I donít knowÖand therefore must wait and trust in Elohim. I am like Octoberose, heart sick and confused how I should be viewing the events. I want retribution to the terrorists, but God says vengeance is His! What do I do about that?

Indiana Bob says we have not seen anything yet. And my thinking over the years about what must transpire (based on Revelations) agrees with that sentimentÖ.but what I am to do with the knowledge that the WHOLE of Revelations is symbolic???

We canít really know can we?  Remember when Ray was explaining that a third of the trees and grass were not going to burn and that a third of the fish in the ocean were not going to die? It is symbolic of something else!

So, all I do is try to think back to my studies, and my understanding of what Ray taught, and then just kind of wait in my own mind. The traditional ďChristianĒ belief of the literal understanding of Revelations never rang true to me because it always sounded SO far fetched. I was so thankful for Ray showing how it is symbolic.

These are truly hard times to understand.

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arion

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Re: Israel
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2023, 08:20:30 PM »


We canít really know can we?  Remember when Ray was explaining that a third of the trees and grass were not going to burn and that a third of the fish in the ocean were not going to die? It is symbolic of something else!


IIRC correctly what he was teaching is that this takes place in you and I....the believer.  As this takes place in our lives a third of our carnality is burned out and the mountains in our lives are being removed, etc. 
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octoberose

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Re: Israel
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2023, 11:57:42 PM »

Arion, I just donít believe that . Iíd rather not get myself thrown out of my spiritual
Home , but I donít worship Ray .  Iím not trying to teach you something contrary to Rays teaching , Iím simply saying there are places  I believe he missed the mark. He is no longer here to explain , defend or change . No one sees perfectly - knowledge is partial on this side of heaven .
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Musterseed

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Re: Israel
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2023, 12:00:31 AM »

Yes God removes our Babylon in us, the trees the mountains , burns the grass,etc. But He also removes it from the world.

Porter, I donít believe for one minute that you are picking on me. You are my
brother and I love you.
So what have I learned at BT?
I read all of your questions and concerns and realized that the answers to all of them are in Rays Rapture Paper.
I have been studying Rays papers, the Lake of fire series every day for the past
eight years for many hours a day, listening to audios and reading transcripts
also, just to give you peace of mind , itís all I do or care to do. My first study was on the Myth of
Free Will which I believe is a huge part of what is happening in our world today.

Understanding Gods Sovereignty is paramount . Abraham believed that God would
Raise Isaac from the dead. Thatís the kind of faith it takes to understand Gods
Sovereignty. Itís a gift, just as everything is a gift from God.
All parables are The many called and few chosen. Two groups. It is the theme
throughout the Bible.
To understand about Noah. Just read the Rapture paper under Rapture of the Wicked.i This article of Rays also explains the parable of the ten virgins, watching
and being SOBER. The trap/ snare is for the wicked, the good fish are kept.
Ray says it was always Gods intention for the elect to remain on the earth
and gives many scriptures to prove it.
The two grinding at the mill are two groups, one is taken , one is kept etc.
JGods judgement on the elect is now and judgement is the same for both the just and the unjust. The difference is the timeline and knowing the difference between affliction/ tribulation and wrath / indignation. Gods elect
Will not incur the latter. As for the Day of the Lord this too is explained in great
detail. Porter , this is a huge study and I am on my fourth study of it but itís
Contains many, many apples of gold. I cannot write all the scriptures but they are there for anyone who has eyes to see and ears to hear. I pray the God will
give you the answers you are seeking and all who here on the forum seeking as well. Let us pray for wisdom and endurance to continue running this race.
Do you know why God is shortening the time for the elect? Does anyone have
an answer to this question? I think I might but need to search the scriptures
for it. Porter if you need help with the Rapture Paper I am willing to help you.
Maybe itís time we began some discussion ,,,,, or maybe not. It all depends on
what our Father wants and His will according to His purpose.
Canít go wrong with that belief right. Hang in there everyone. God WILL SEE US THROUGH,but it wonít be a walk in the park as Ray has stated many times.All praise and glory to our Sovereign God.

I am sorry I didnít post scriptures but there are just too many along with
witnesses to each one but they are in the Rapture paper. I am so in awe
Of the knowledge and wisdom that Our Father has given to Ray to teach us.
We are so very blessed , it boggles the mind. Thank you Lord.
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)

Porter

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Re: Israel
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2023, 07:08:04 PM »

Yes God removes our Babylon in us, the trees the mountains , burns the grass,etc. But He also removes it from the world. All parables are The many called and few chosen. Two groups. It is the theme
throughout the Bible.
To understand about Noah. Just read the Rapture paper under Rapture of the Wicked.i This article of Rays also explains the parable of the ten virgins, watching
and being SOBER. The trap/ snare is for the wicked, the good fish are kept.
Ray says it was always Gods intention for the elect to remain on the earth
and gives many scriptures to prove it.
The two grinding at the mill are two groups, one is taken , one is kept etc.
JGods judgement on the elect is now and judgement is the same for both the just and the unjust. The difference is the timeline and knowing the difference between affliction/ tribulation and wrath / indignation.
Thanks, Pamela, these were a few of the things I was looking for confirmation on.


Do you know why God is shortening the time for the elect? Does anyone have an answer to this question?

I did a little study on this not too long ago, as I thought it to be an interesting statement by Jesus. I studied the Old Testament stories as well as the New Testaments ones and came to some incredible realizations, but I won't mention them here at this time. Suffice it to say, the use of water as a symbol for cleansing whole regions and cities is quite ubiquitous throughout the Scriptures, even when it isn't obvious, i.e., Sodom and Gomorrah is one example. Anyhow, here's some Scripture from the Concordant Literal Version to consider in relation to your immediate question.


Rev 19:17 And I perceived another messenger, standing in the sun. And he cries with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which are flying in mid-heaven, "Hither! Be gathered for the great dinner of God,
Rev 19:18 that you may be eating the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of the strong, and the flesh of horses and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all freemen as well as slaves, and of small and of great."


Rev 19:19 And I perceived the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, gathered to do battle with Him Who is sitting on the horse and with His army."


Rev 19:20 And the wild beast is arrested, and with it the false prophet who does the signs in its sight, by which he deceives those getting the emblem of the wild beast, and those worshiping its image. Living, the two were cast into the lake of fire burning with sulphur."


Rev 19:21 And the rest were killed with the blade which is coming out of the mouth of Him Who is sitting on the horse. And all the birds are satisfied with their flesh.

The parable you are referring to in Mathew sounds awfully similar to the passage above from Revelation.


Mat 24:21 for then shall be great affliction, such as has not occurred from the beginning of the world till now; neither under any circumstances may be occurring."


Mat 24:22 And, except those days were discounted, no flesh at all would be saved. Yet, because of the chosen, those days shall be discounted."


Mat 24:23 Then, if anyone should be saying to you, 'Lo! here is the Christ! or 'Here!' you should not be believing it."


Mat 24:24 For roused shall be false christs and false prophets, and they shall be giving great signs and miracles, so as to deceive, if possible, even the chosen."


Mat 24:25 Lo! I have declared it to you beforehand.


Mat 24:26 If, then, they should say to you, 'Lo! in the wilderness is he!' you may not be coming out' 'Lo! in the storerooms!' you should not be believing it."


Mat 24:27 For even as the lightning is coming out from the east and is appearing as far as the west, thus shall be the presence of the Son of Mankind."

Mat 24:28 Wheresoever the corpse may be, there will the vultures be gathered."

I became stumped when I couldn't figure out who these ďbirds which are flying in mid-heavenĒ from Revelation and ďvulturesĒ from Mathew represent. IF (big IF) these birds represent the Elect, then it would make sense they are picking humanity CLEAN. When I think of ďfleshĒ I think of the carnal mind, but why would any flesh at all need to be saved? There's another piece of Scripture here concerning the marriage supper of the Lamb.


Mat 22:1 And, answering, Jesus speaks to them again in parables, saying,


Mat 22:2 Likened was the kingdom of the heavens to a man, a king, who makes wedding festivities for his son."


Mat 22:3 And he dispatches his slaves to call those invited to the wedding festivities, and they would not come."


Mat 22:4 Again he dispatches other slaves, saying, 'Say to those invited, "Lo! my luncheon have I made ready, my bulls and grain-fed animals have been sacrificed, and all is ready: Hither for the wedding festivities!"'"


Mat 22:5 Yet they, not caring, came away, one, indeed, to his own field, yet one to his merchandise."


Mat 22:6 Yet the rest, taking hold of his slaves, outrage and kill them."


Mat 22:7 Now the king is angered, and, sending his troops, destroys those murderers and sets their city in flames."


Mat 22:8 Then he is saying to his slaves, 'The wedding, indeed, is ready, yet those invited were not worthy."


Mat 22:9 Go, then, to the exits of the roads and whosoever you may be finding, call to the wedding festivities.'"


Mat 22:10 And, coming out into the roads, those slaves gathered all whom they found, both wicked and good, and filled is the wedding with those lying back at table."


Mat 22:11 Now the king, entering to gaze at those lying back at table, perceived there a man who has not put on wedding apparel."


Mat 22:12 And he is saying to him, 'Comrade, how did you enter here having no wedding apparel?' Yet he was still."


Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Binding his feet and hands, cast him out into outer darkness.' There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth."


Mat 22:14 For many are the called, yet few are the chosen."

I'm tempted to believe some Scriptural ďpropheciesĒ above are still yet in the future, but some happened in the past and some are happening now. The shortening of time for the Elect's sake could simply be encouragement regarding how short our lives are as mortals? I don't know that for sure, so it's just a shot in the dark. However, if there was one thing I thought might be ONLY in the future, that would be the part about ďgreat afflictionĒ in the ďDay of the LordĒ at the Great White Throne Judgment/Lake of Fire. Are these aforementioned events the same as the Marriage Supper of the Lamb?

FYI, I'm not making a big stand on anything I've presented here, just putting it all out there for discussion as I'm always open to correction and further study. Sorry if I couldn't answer your question adequately, as I simply do not know. God willing, maybe we can figure this out together.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2023, 07:12:08 PM by Porter »
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Luk 22:31  "Simon, Simon, look out! Satan has asked to sift you like wheat.
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And you, when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."
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