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[Wendy]

Hi everyone

I pray you are all well. I like to give a shout out to Dennis for the videos he’s been putting up for us. They’re very good very informative. Thanks for putting them out

God bless
Wendy

[Dennis Vogel]

Thank you Wendy - The part 3 of the beast should be posted tomorrow April 18th (I hope).

[Musterseed]

Ah yes, fire from heaven. Praise God.

Thankyou Dennis, May God keep you doing His will. We love you.

In Christ, Pamela.

[Daddysgirl.2]

Thank you Dennis. I've followed the Yt tunnel for a while now and must say it lands in differently. I was reminded of the literal "hearing" that I associated with producing faith while I was in Christendom. Not really sure if that's how it works though.

I never ever was able to read and study all of The Lake of fire series. Most of it required more faith than I thought I could muster at the time(nor ask our Lord for). I am being affected and transformed.
That's all I can say for now.

But, really; many many thanks to you for your faithfulness.

[Porter]

I know this reply is a bit late, but you're right to wonder what it means to hear Matty. Everyone who calls Jesus Lord hears Him, but hardly anyone understands with their heart, due to God having hardened their hearts. I say that with the full understanding that God has had mercy on me after hardening my heart in the same way, but not through anything I did or didn't do. Where God takes it from there, I don't know. So it's with “fear and trembling” I work out my salvation.

I don't think it's necessary to understand or even read all of Ray's papers, as long as you understand that as a person thinks in his or her heart, that's what they are.

[Daddysgirl.2]

Thank you so very much Porter. For "a word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver."

Question: Did you always know or feel when your heart was hardened? In retrospect; can you recall the process of falling away or disbelief.
Feel free to move this reply to another board as appropriate please, wouldn't want to be "new" and not follow the rules.

[Porter]

I don't think I was ever aware of my heart being in that hardened state when I was still in the Church. I'm also not sure if I've ever fully identified the process of falling away. I think I just took it for granted that I did at one time leave my first love some twenty plus years ago.

Looking back, I can now see the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just one miserable disappointment after another in God for not healing me of my sins despite my desperate cries. To worsen it, all those in the congregation were acting crazy. Casting out demons, falling to the ground, speaking tongues of gibberish, praying out loud, dancing, singing, laughing, eating and drinking all for show. I took part in some of that craziness, but it felt so disingenuous and none of it was helping, so I left.

There I was one day not long after I left the Church, laying in bed without God, without a foundation, contemplating suicide. I asked God why He created me knowing full well in advance that I would not and could not repent. I asked Him why He would send me to hell for something out of my control especially if He knew I would fail. I told Him how unfair that was and if hell is where I'm meant to be because He wouldn't save me, then hell is where I want to go. I resigned myself to eternal torture, I gave up on God at that moment because in my mind, He failed me. It seemed He didn't care. I was so mad at God, I hated Him and let Him know by cursing Him. I didn't want anything more to do with God.
 
 I don't remember much in the years between that falling away event and finding bible-truths.com, but when I did find it, my hope in God was renewed. It hasn't gotten easier, but at least now I have a foundation, and I know God is good and just, no matter what happens.

[Dave in Tenn]

You wouldn't have to change too many details to make my story line up with yours.  My church wasn't nearly so "charismatic", but no less carnal.  The rest is pretty much identical.  I thank God for bringing me in.  I thank Him for bringing me out.

[Porter]

I thank God for bringing me in.  I thank Him for bringing me out.

There's a new song if I've ever heard one, Dave. Remember when you asked if something was holy? Yes, it's holy because it's true, it's also honest, and lovely, it's just, it's pure, and it's of a good report with an A+ signed by Jesus. I think of that all the time.

I have a question: Do you or anyone else know if falling from grace and leaving your first love can be more subtle, where it might be a bit more difficult to identify? It's difficult to imagine a fall that great would go unnoticed by the believer. In all fairness, I didn't know until I looked back and all the memories of it came flooding in. In my case, it was relatively easy to see after thinking about if for a few minutes, but has it been harder to pinpoint for anyone else? There's no right or wrong answers, I'm just very curious.

[Dave in Tenn]

Porter, I think I can say that in many ways I began "leaving my first love and falling away" not long after I began my
"christian life".  That didn't mean I lost enthusiasm or interest.  If anything, those grew the further I went.  But both the means and the ends of my "walk" was carnal.  That process was maybe "subtle" and not recognized until I "looked back".  Like you said, by the time I had made a more distinct "decision" to walk away, I certainly did not see myself as one of the good guys.  Far from it.  I saw myself (and was) a miserable failure at "christian living".

Though I was becoming increasingly aware of the twisted contradictions inherent in christian doctrine, and of hypocrisies large and small in "the church" the primary motivation in my own mind for walking away was my own failings.  It made sense to me that, if I was to avoid hypocrisy, it would be better if I no longer made any claim to or effort towards "righteousness".  I sucked at it. 

What really was absolutely NOT subtle was the looking back when I came to believe and seeing the Hand of Sovereign God in absolutely all of it.  I think what preceded that revelation--decades of it--was the "building of the house on sand" and the revelation and it's effects was the actual fall, or at least the major completion of the fall.  I had absolutely no idea that the "coming out of her" was a commandment I'd "obeyed" without even knowing it was a commandment.  We are HIS workmanship.  He is the potter, we are the clay.

Did I cover your question? 

[Porter]

That does cover my question, thanks. Furthermore, a special thanks for showing me the verse to “come out of her” in a different light. I thought it of it as more of a plea, but now I see how stupid that would be.

[Rene]

I had absolutely no idea that the "coming out of her" was a commandment I'd "obeyed" without even knowing it was a commandment.  We are HIS workmanship.  He is the potter, we are the clay.

What a good point to emphasize that the "coming out of her" is a commandment and as Porter had mentioned NOT a plea.  For whom God has chosen or commanded to "come out of her" will definitely come out.   

John 15:16 - You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide..."

[Musterseed]

Matt.4:19… and He said to them,” follow Me…….a command.


John 10:4…. When He has brought out all His own, He goes before them,
and the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice.

John 10:27…. My sheep hear My voice and i know them, and they follow Me.

John 10:5… a stranger they will not follow……

Rev.14:4… It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins, it is these who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

These sheep were born to obey the shepherds commands. 

[Porter]

It's been a rough night, but I just wanted to say that you are all are some “beautiful feet” 
 Isa 52:6  Therefore My people shall know what My name is and what it means; therefore they shall know in that day that I am He who speaks; behold, I AM! 

Isa 52:7  How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good tidings, who publishes peace, who brings good tidings of good, who publishes salvation, who says to Zion, Your God reigns!

[Dennis Vogel]

I posted the last part of "The Beast Within" #3 this morning. A very profound article.

Part 1: https://youtu.be/aWndbfn8IMU

[Abednego]

I thank God for bringing me in.  I thank Him for bringing me out.

Do you or anyone else know if falling from grace and leaving your first love can be more subtle, where it might be a bit more difficult to identify?

It was pretty subtle for me. I didn't actually realize I had fallen away until  I was brought back and "looked back" as Ray would say.

[Daddysgirl.2]

Hello all.

Another ⁉️

So, I listened to The Beast within YouTube audios, while also trying to keep up with the reading. I noticed that Ray taught about the very elect falling away, having their house built on sand exposed. The apostle Paul alludes to this many times in his letters(epistles), John in Revelations clearly experienced it too.

My humble question is this; once you know in your heart of hearts that you truly have fallen away/had the beast exposed, is it realistic or helpful to begin from whence you fell? I'm finding that I relate more to the milk(foundational truths) than the meat of God's Truths- although I still strangely recall(carnally) how pleasant the meat tastes. Naturally I went straight for the meat once I felt my house crashed down.

All scriptural views will be appreciated.

P.S. The falling away is far harder than 'coming out of her', in my experience. Don't wish it on anyone though it'll probably reach us all.

Many thanks again and Blessings,
Matty

Dennis, I was always surprised that material from B-T was ever accepted on internet platforms. Thank you for persevering and handling their push backs with the maturity and dignity I can only hope I had an ounce of.

[Dave in Tenn]

What do you consider "meat" in the context of your question?

Once the "house built on sand" has fallen, there is only one foundation fit to build on.  And it isn't sand.

[Daddysgirl.2]

Meat is what I consider intermediary to solid "food". Milk is like what's fed to babes. Babes in Christ.

The prodigal son just wanted to come back a servant, not even a long lost son, His Father thought and acted.
otherwise.
Going back to the basics.

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm still not sure I understand the question.  Honestly, I've wondered about this very thing from the first time I made a more conscious decision to participate in this forum.  Just what do folks consider "milk", or "solid food", or the "rudiments of the beginning of the Word of God"?  I even asked the question years ago, but don't recall an answer that satisfied me.

You asked for a scriptural answer.  This is I think the best of the translations I have in ESword.  (Please don't leave out the first parts of the chapter that lead up to these.)

LITV Heb 5:12-14  For indeed because of the time you are due to be teachers, yet you need to have someone to teach you again the rudiments of the beginning of the Words of God, and you came to be having need of milk, and not of solid food; for everyone partaking of milk is without experience in the Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant.  But solid food is for those full grown, having exercised the faculties through habit, for distinction of both good and bad. 

"Partaking of milk" is done because one is an infant.  "Infancy" is characterized by being "without experience" in the Word of Righteousness.  Solid food is for those WITH experience, then...right?  Full grown, having strengthened abilities through practice, for the ability to distinguish both good and bad--not simply the "difference between good and bad", but good and bad itself/themselves.  Remember the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?  One fruit.  We all eat it.

If I may reflect for a moment.  There have been a lot of people come through this forum who seem to me to have failed to go on to being full grown.  The ones that have made me the saddest are those who seem to have come to believe that their own "experience" pales to insignificance next to the pursuit of some theological bauble, or worldly curiosity, or "yet having need to have someone to teach them again".  I'm not calling anybody out--because firstly I know that He is able to complete in everybody what He has started (indeed ONLY He is able), and secondly I ain't done yet either.

But I do wish they had a better idea of what "solid food" was and that many of them might remember that they have tasted it, even if they have returned to a more "milk-based" diet.

I'll finish with this.  Since we are "HERE" and I'm not typing out to the whole word, I have what I think is a wise suggestion.  Dig into the emails.  They are full of "milky" questions.  If you can answer them in a manner approaching the way Ray did, I'm willing to call you moving into "full-grown", without too much need of someone to teach you the rudiments, and no longer a babbling babe.  And if you can answer from your own God-caused experience, even if you can't quote chapter and verse, then you're pretty much ready for anything, I think.