Ezekiel 28:2-19

[Michael]

Lately I have been in some discussion with another website which states "Satan was a high-ranking angel in heaven before he was cast out into the earth." This particular website uses Isaiah 14 and especially Ezekiel 28:13 to prove this. They say this because the scripture uses "Garden of Eden"  and "was an annointed cherub" among other statements in this chapter of verse.
We know this is about the King of Tyre, not Satan. The question I have is how the "garden of eden" is used here and plays into the King of Tyre?  I am using several resources in my attempt to uncover this confusion. REB, Youngs Literal Bible, etc. Does anyone have any enlightenment on this subject? Thanks.

Michael

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Michael,

Have you read this yet? From Lake of Fire Part IX;

WHO OR WHAT IS 'LUCIFER'?

This next verse is where theologians believe God stops speaking of the King of Babylon and begins speaking of the origin of Satan. What pray tell, does the end of the King of Babylon have to do with the beginning of Satan? Really nothing, but let's check out their hypothesis anyway, as it is believed by the Church worldwide.

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations"! (Ver. 12).

Notice that back in verse 4 God says to take up this proverb against the "king of Babylon." Next let's pick up this proverb in verse 10 after all the "trees" (different people which feared the king), are at rest because of the king's demise, and see if this "Lucifer theory" fits into these verses without doing irreparable damage to the kings English:

"All they shall speak and say unto thee [king of Babylon], Art thou [king of Babylon] also become weak as we? Art thou [king of Babylon] become like unto us [mere mortals and not gods from heaven]. Thy [king of Babylon] pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy [king of Babylon] viols: the worm is spread under thee [king of Babylon], and the worms cover thee [king of Babylon]. How art thou [king of Babylon] fallen from heaven, O Lucifer..."?!?

What is this? How can, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon, the king of Babylon (made reference to eight time in two sentences), suddenly turn into "Lucifer" in the middle of a sentence? And where are we ever told that "Lucifer" is a proper name for Satan?

So just where did this proper name, "Lucifer" suddenly appear from in the middle of this sentence? Is "Lucifer" a proper name? Is it even a noun? Is "Lucifer" another name for the king of Babylon? Is "Lucifer" an English word? Is there a Hebrew word that can be translated "Lucifer?"

I am going to shine some LIGHT on this "O Lucifer, son of the morning star" business, and we can all watch Lucifer disappear in the dawn's early light. It is but another heresy from the Dark Ages that crept into the hallowed halls of the Church. This is a little lengthy, but it is also one of the most intriguing bits of deception your will ever see exposed, so I will take the time to debunk it.

Please read the entire article here;



http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

Thanks,

Joe

[Michael]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have read all the series on this. I certainly understand the "Lucifer" hoax. However, I was trying to understand where the "garden of eden" fits into Ezekiel 28:13, applying it to the King of Tyre, not Satan.

Thanks,

In Christ

Michael

[angie]

Hi Michael,

This is the bit of that paper I think Joe was referring to. I made bold a few words for ease of reading.
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"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God... in the day that you were created."

Here we are told is even more proof that this is speaking of Satan. After all, wasn't Satan in the garden of "Eden" and wasn't Satan a "created" being?

The word translated "Eden" in this verse is the same word or root translated Eden 20 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Sometimes it has reference to the "garden" that God planted in the area of the country called Eden. Sometimes it has reference to other lands near the area of Eden, and not the garden of Eden. Sometimes it refers to the "children of Eden" as in II Kings 19:12. And I think everyone is aware of the fact that Adam and Eve had NO CHILDREN in the "garden of Eden." Amos 1:5 speaks of the "house of Eden"—very same Hebrew word translated "Eden" in every occurrence of this word in the Hebrew Manuscripts. And Eden is also the name of several persons in Scripture.

Now back to verse 13 and Eden the garden of God." And so, we see that "Eden" can mean various things, even though Eden is always translated from the same Hebrew word, which is Strong's #5731, Eden, ay'-den; the same as #5730, eden, ay'den; from #5727, pleasure. #5727, adan, aw-dan'; to be soft or pleasant... to live voluptuously.

And so we find that this is a word that has a meaning, and that this word does not need to be capitalized. Neither is it capitalized OR translated "eden" in other Scriptures:

Hope this helps

Angie

[hillsbororiver]

Michael,

I believe there is more understanding and clarity when the articles are read in their entirety instead of piece meal for debate purposes, but here is more "fuel" to bring to the discussion;



WAS ABRAHAM'S WIFE, SARAH IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN ALSO?

"Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure [Hebrew translated 'pleasure' here is eden, ay-den'] my lord being old also?" (Gen. 18:12).

"They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of your house; and you shalt make them drink of the river of your pleasures [Hebrew translated 'pleasures' here is eden, ay-den'!]" (Psalm 36:.

So why should it be capitalized in Ezek. 28:13? It shouldn't. Here are a couple of translations that don't (1) Capitalize it, or (2) Translate it "eden."

"Thou wast in the pleasures [Heb. eden, ay-den'] of the paradise [or garden] of God" (Ezek. 28:13, The Holy Bible, Douay Confraternity)

"In the luxury [Heb. eden, ay-den'] of the garden of Alueim [God] you come to be" (Ezek. 28:13, The Concordant Literal Old Testament).

Although the KJV often italicizes words in a verse that were not in the original manuscript, but that are often needed to make the English read better, they do not always do so. Here are the actual translated words for which there is an Hebrew equivalent in verse 13 of Ezek. 28:

"In luxury of garden of God you come be."

"In the luxury of the garden of God you come to be."

Now if we retain that word "of" and insert it into the KJV, we would have this:

"Thou hast been in Eden of the garden of God."

If, as the KJV translation suggests, eden IS the "garden of God," then it cannot ALSO BE "OF" that same garden!

Furthermore don't think that "has been" is necessarily correct either (suggesting that this is speaking of an event long ancient to the lamentation being presently given to Ezekiel), seeing that the Hebrew language, strictly speaking, has no verb forms which express either past or future.

Now please don't think that I am inserting all this detailed information to make my paper more complicated and boring. I am not. I am considering the spiritual welfare of some of you who will, undoubtedly, be challenged by so-called "experts" in the field of translation, grammar, and language. I want you to be prepared.

But isn't this verse speaking of a "created" being, and therefore couldn't it mean Satan, as opposed to the King of Tyrus who was "born" rather than "created" as was Adam and Satan? Not at all!


Thank you Angie!

Joe

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

[angie]

Hi Joe

No probs



Angie

[orion77]

Seems those verses in Ezekiel and Isiah, are talking about the carnal mind, false doctrines and religious beliefs those of the world use to escape the judgment of God.  Yet, it is clear there is no escaping.  Gods righteous judgments, purpose and plan will stand.

(Eze 28:2)  Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, So says the Lord Jehovah, Because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, in the heart of the seas; yet you are a man, and not God, though you give your heart as the heart of gods.


Where is the seat or temple of God?


(2Th 2:4)  the one opposing and exalting himself over everything being called God, or object of worship, so as for him "to sit in the temple of God" as God, setting forth himself, that he is God. Dan. 11:36; Eze. 28:2

(2Co 6:16)  And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the living God, even as God said, "I will" dwell in them and "walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Lev. 26:12; Ezek. 37:27

(Eze 37:26)  And I will cut a covenant of peace with them, an everlasting covenant it shall be with them, And I will place them and multiply them, and I will put My sanctuary in their midst forever.

(Eze 37:27)  And My tabernacle shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


King of Tyre, king of babylon are men, same as us, created in the Garden of Eden, being without the Spirit of God in us cannot understand spiritual things.  We can all see the big difference Gods Spirit has made in this life.  That old life was destroyed, and the heart of carnal man is very corrupt.

The difference between the old mind and the new mind, the old covenant and the new covenant, is like night and day. 

We cannot have true Life without the Tree of Life.  Christ came to show us the way, and the great and terrible humblling is something that had to happen for us to see the beast within, then comes true repentence, death, and rebirth, the new creation.

God paints many pictures of the battle between the carnal mind and the mind of Christ throughout the bible, and Christ is always victorious.

All will be humbled, all will repent, and all will bow the knee to Christ.  He is the victorious King of Kings.  I am very grateful that He is not as the world sees a King to be, but as Jesus said:


(Mar 10:42)  But having called them near, Jesus said to them, You know that those seeming to rule the nations lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.

(Mar 10:43)  But it shall not be so among you, but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant.

(Mar 10:44)  And whoever of you desires to become first, he shall be slave of all.

(Mar 10:45)  For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.


God bless,

Gary