buy and sell

[discipleindeed]

Hello all,

(Proverbs 23:23 KJVR)  Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

(Revelation 13:17 KJVR)  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Those who have the mark can buy and sell what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings).

Those who who have not received the mark cannot buy or sell , they cannot buy (believe) what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings) or sell (convince) the world of the truth of Christ.

Love in Christ,
Aaron

[Laren]

Interesting post.  Brought up some questions for me. 


Just what is this mark of the beast we receive??  We all by nature are children of wrath, beasts.  Do we all have the mark of the beast?? 


Rev 13:16-18 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.



If we all receive the mark, then we may buy and sell??



Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.


Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

[ned]

Interesting post. Brought up some questions for me.

Just what is this mark of the beast we receive?? We all by nature are children of wrath, beasts. Do we all have the mark of the beast?? 

I believe all do get the mark of the beast, because we have to overcome it.

Rev15:2 "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name...."

How can we overcome it if we didn't have it?

[jenny06]

From my expience, I heard once within one body of church goers that in order for them to identify those who are called to preach, that person has to be sent (by another church).  "Someone has to send that person," one deacon said.  He sited Paul for his example, that if he had not spoken for by others that the people trusted, than he would not have been a believable convert.  It just so happens that one of the other parisheners had mentioned that a someone was speaking in a wallmart parking lot and that is what spurred on the whole topic.  So in my understanding, you have to buy what they sell or you cannot sell because they are talking about all of us, warning their parisheners of us, who don't think like those of man's church! 

[Sorin]

Hello all,

(Proverbs 23:23 KJVR)  Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

(Revelation 13:17 KJVR)  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Those who have the mark can buy and sell what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings).

Those who who have not received the mark cannot buy or sell , they cannot buy (believe) what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings) or sell (convince) the world of the truth of Christ.

Love in Christ,
Aaron

Aaron,

That's the way I see it too. I didn't  think Rev 13:17 (which is a Book Of Symbols) is meant to be interpreted 'literally' like Christendom likes to do.   

Good post indeed. And as it so happenend someone asked what is my interpretation of Rev 13:17 since I don't believe it's talking about literally selling and buying things like food,water, gas, etc... and while I was away you had answered it. :lol

btw, who locked the thread about 'National ID Card' and why?

Sorin

[Laren]

Hello all,


Those who who have not received the mark cannot buy or sell , they cannot buy (believe) what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings) or sell (convince) the world of the truth of Christ.

Love in Christ,
Aaron

This statement to me implies that some don't receive the mark of the beast.  But if we are all beasts, all antichrists, havent' we all received this mark?? 


How do we receive the mark??  Spiritually i'm talking here, not physically??


maybe receiving the mark occurs the day we see our true nature.  And at that point we can now buy and sell.  We can sell all our carnal possesions, and buy gold refined in the fire???

Similar to the law, it has to administer death, in order to be our tutor to lead us to Christ


?  just wondering

[Kat]

Hi Laren,

I found this in Ray's Lake of Fire series.
I took out a small part that was particularly about the mark of the beast.


http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html

Let me recap this just a little for you. First comes a wild beast out of the sea with seven heads and ten horns. A second wild beast comes out of the earth like a lamb with two horns speaking like a dragon and he calls down fire from heaven and deceives the whole world by miracles. This second wild beasts makes everyone worship the first wild beast. This wild beast from the earth then causes everyone on earth to make an image of the first wild beast from the sea and makes everyone worship this image of the wild beast from the sea or be killed.

This image of the wild beast from the sea then causes everyone to worship this image, and causes all to receive a MARK of the first wild beast from the sea in their right hand, or in their foreheads. They can have either a mark or the name or the number of his name, and that number is said (albeit not correctly said) to be the number of a man, and it is the number 666.

Now repeat all that back to me in your own words! Okay, let's try this shortened version: a beast from the earth causes all to worship a beast from the sea and to also make an image of this beast from the sea, who then causes all to receive either a mark, name, or number. Got it?

*the image, name, and number of the wild beast" all have reference to the one beast that comes up out of the sea and is the wild beast made reference to for the remainder of the book of Revelation. It is this very "wild beast" along with the "false prophet" which is ultimately "...cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Rev. 19:21).

Hope this help.

Kat

[gmik]

Hello all,

(Proverbs 23:23 KJVR)  Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

(Revelation 13:17 KJVR)  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Those who have the mark can buy and sell what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings).

Those who who have not received the mark cannot buy or sell , they cannot buy (believe) what the world offers (false doctrines, false teachings) or sell (convince) the world of the truth of Christ.

Love in Christ,
Aaron

Aaron, I loved that.  Had never thought it in that way.

[Joey Porter]

Interesting insight here.  I wonder how this all relates to the parable of the wise and foolish virgins:

Matthew 25
6"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

9" 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

10"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

[snorky]

Thanks for your postings and this thread! Interesting, what Aaron brought up about not being able to sell the truth of Christ and not being able to buy the "strong delusion" of the "Christian" church (Christendom).

It was all that National ID card business, all that microchip stuff, all the paranoia of the Clinton years, what with the militias and stuff me and my husband was on the fringe of (remember the 1997 "Republic of Texas" standoff? We lived a mile from where it happened and knew the leader of it very well), that got me searching for Christ's truth on ths issue. When I read Ray's LOF series in about a week, hardly being able to stand having to go to bed because I simply couldn't keep my eyes open reading a computer screen for several hours at a time, and when he said "the beast is YOU!" it all started making sense! Yes, we all received the mark of the beast, the carnal mind and heart, and all have to overcome it, in part, by not buying into Christendom's heresies, but also, not being able to sell the truth of Christ. But that is because those who don't buy and sell are the chosen who receive the mark of God for overcoming the mark of the beast...but only by His Sovereign Will...He chooses the chosen. The thing is it hurts (like Job, one has to accept the Will of God but one doesn't necessarily have to like it) when the one I am trying to explain the truth to refuses to accept it (God's Will), and still believes all the nonsense about: the rapture, rebuilding the temple in physical Jerusalem, national ID cards, John Hagee's crap about Israel, etc.

Please, people, be with me spiritually and bear with me physically!--snorky

[mongoose]

Snorky,
   I know it can be confusing and hurt when you are trying to explain what you have learned to someone and they don't get it and persist in beliefs you believe to be obviously wrong.  At those times, I think it's important for us to remember that they don't understand because they can't.  They don't know they are wrong and are incapable of seeing the truth.  Love them as they are, pray for them, and always remember...God will bring all to the truth and to Him, in His own time.

Peace and love

mongoose

[jerreye]

Hi All,

I have read in this group that ALL MEN have received the Mark of the Beast.

When I compare the idea that "ALL MEN inherently have this mark of the beast" to the scriptures, I see a problem. Rev 14:9 states "IF ANY MAN RECEIVE the mark". It doesn't sound to me that we are born with this mark. It seems from the passage given that in order for one to posses this mark, he needs to willfully RECEIVE/TAKE it. And in order for that to happen, wouldn't it then have to be OFFERED to him? This subject of the "mark" has always confused me. I have yet to receive a complete answer to what it is exactly. Ray doesn't seem to have an answer either. He refuses to answer it when I ask him. (I often wonder why it is that Ray answers the same questions regarding TITHING hundreds of times, over and over again, but yet he won't give an answer to WHAT the mark of the beast is?)

Interesting topic.

[ned]

Hi All,

I have read in this group that ALL MEN have received the Mark of the Beast.

When I compare the idea that "ALL MEN inherently have this mark of the beast" to the scriptures, I see a problem. Rev 14:9 states "IF ANY MAN RECEIVE the mark". It doesn't sound to me that we are born with this mark. It seems from the passage given that in order for one to posses this mark, he needs to willfully RECEIVE/TAKE it. And in order for that to happen, wouldn't it then have to be OFFERED to him? This subject of the "mark" has always confused me. I have yet to receive a complete answer to what it is exactly. Ray doesn't seem to have an answer either. He refuses to answer it when I ask him. (I often wonder why it is that Ray answers the same questions regarding TITHING hundreds of times, over and over again, but yet he won't give an answer to WHAT the mark of the beast is?) Interesting topic.

After reviewing this thread, I see what you are saying, Jerreye.  I believe what is being implied however (my original post is mistaken also), is not that all men have received the mark, but rather ALL MEN HAVE (RECEIVED) THE BEAST (WITHIN THEM BY NATURE).

This is what we need to overcome, the beast within us.
If we overcome, we will not receive (gk; "get hold of") the mark. If we worship the beast, and his image, we will receive his mark.

What actually is the mark?
Is it a physical mark? Spiritually speaking, I believe it "brands" us as being followers of the beast, the opposite of those who (spiritually) receive the white robes.  I don't think anyone sees the "mark" or wears the robe.  God knows.

I'd love some more spiritual insight into this if anyone has something more to share....
Otherwise, as Mongoose stated, we will await God's light to be shed on this subject.
Love,
Marie

[discipleindeed]

Hello all,

I was thinking of the word mark and I wondered if it had anything to do with a name. Such as when we sign our mark. Our signature. This is how others know who we are in the world. We are all born with a name but we receive a new name when we are born again.

Phi 2:9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phi 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phi 2:11  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rev 2:17  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

This is our spiritual nature. We are first born as a beast (human nature) then as spirit (Christs nature).

Here are some scriptures I found that I am looking at to help me understand.

Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark (G5480), or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Exo 32:16  And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

Jer 17:1  The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars;

Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

G5480
χάραγμα
charagma
khar'-ag-mah
From the same as G5482; a scratch or etching, that is, stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue): - graven, mark.

G5482
χάραξ
charax
khar'-ax
From "charasso" (to sharpen to a point; akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching); a stake, that is, (by implication) a palisade or rampart (millitary mound for circumvallation in a siege): - trench.

G5482
χάραξ
charax
khar'-ax
From "charasso" (to sharpen to a point; akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching); a stake, that is, (by implication) a palisade or rampart (millitary mound for circumvallation in a siege): - trench.

Love in Christ,
Aaron