In What Way Are Any Ashamed?

[Porter]

The question in the title of this post came to mind today as I was thinking about Mar 8:38 and Luk_9:26. I will quote them below.

Mar 8:38  For whoever is ashamed of Me and of My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."

Luk 9:26  For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and that of the Father and the holy angels.

The only difference between the two verses above is the addition of the phrase, "in this adulterous and sinful generation" in Luke 9:26. Anyhow, the question came to mind because I've become aware of a little shame or embarrassment within when I speak of the spirit. It's like a voice that says, "this is silly" and, "no one cares, so why try". Has anyone else felt the same when speaking of spiritual things?

Now, I haven't studied this topic yet, so how I feel and what is actually spiritually true may differ. It's not lost on me how spiritual truths are challenging to understand for most, including myself. It's like a completely different language that no one on earth speaks.

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas, please feel free to express them. Perhaps we can understand what Jesus really meant by the verses cited above. Hopefully, I will understand why I feel shame and embaressment at times when speaking of these things.

[Musterseed]

Romans: 8-7... Because the carnal mind ( the natural, physical mind of man)
is enmity ( deep seated hatred HATRED) against God.,,, for it is not subject
to the ( Spiritual) law of God, neither indeed can be.
vs. 6.... For to be carnally minded is death. But to be spiritually minded is
life and peace.

We are all born with a physical carnal mind. It is impossible to keep
God's Spiritual Laws with a carnal mind.

When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all consuming
Spiritual Fire , they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Rev.14:10
regarding anyone who is a part of this One World Religious System.

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God( seeing that) " For ALL NATIONS
have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, which is poured out without
mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented( UTTERLY ASHAMED—- spiritual and mental torment) with the fire and brimstone (GOD'S
DIVINE SPIRITUAL FIRE) in the presence of the HOLY ANGELS and in the presence
of the LAMB.

T hey are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, not in
the presence of God Almighty but in the presence of the Lamb.
How EMBARRASSING and SHAMEFUL it will be for all those being purged in God's
Spiritual Consuming Lake Of Fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin
in the presence of the Lamb of God WHO DIED FOR THEM .( All of us)

Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the Lamb
of God in their judgement.
There are no people suffering in the fabled fires of hell. It's a Christian Hoax. It's a lie. The Lake Of Spiritual Fire Will Bring Salvation to ALL NATIONS, YET SO AS BY FIRE.( 1 Cor. 3:15}

From Ray's teaching ...Sodom and Egypt in prophecy.

So to answer you  Porter... Isaiah 30: 12–17 and many more scriptures.

All who teach free will and all who believe they have it , will be punished.
That's everyone. No one escapes God's judgment. It will be the best thing that's ever happened to humanity.

[Porter]

Thank you Pamela. I'm trying to see it the way Ray put it, but the shame I feel at times is one toward Jesus' words. It's like when I share His spiritual words I gotta look sideways as if I'm almost embarrassed. It's hard to explain.

[Musterseed]

I understand Porter ,
I used to be the same way. God will gradually make you stronger.
Remember the apostles when they rejoiced to be beaten? That was
after conversion. Before that , they were cowards and forsook Jesus.
But we have a down payment,thank God.
Just who are you sharing with? They are blind and until God opens it up to them
they won't get it. You can shout it  till your Blue in the face, you can even show
them the words ( I did this to a JW at my door and she literally couldn't see it, I was
blown away)

John 12:39-40....Therefore they could not believe, for again Isaiah said " He has
blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they see with their eyes and
understand with their heart and turn, and I should heal them.
Also Matt.13:14-15

God will strengthen you Porter, and all of us. He is making us like Him,
How awesome is that . Let us pray for wisdom and endurance.
In the name of Jesus 💕

[Wendy]

Porter.


I definitely can relate to these feelings
When I'm talking to someone about spiritual stuff later on I'll feel embarrassed and question myself why I ever said anything I hate feeling like that.

Thanks Pamela for what you wrote
God bless
Wendy

[Porter]

Pamela, I recently started sharing on TikTok of all places. I had been avoiding that place like the plague because of all the bad things I heard about it. It's true, there is a lot of bad on there, but there is some good as well. I even ran into a group that teaches the salvation of all, as Ray and somebody named Mike Vinson taught it. This group has bible studies with Mike and his circle, from what I understand. I read some of Mike's work, and it was practically a word for word copy of what Ray taught. Furthermore, I'm aware that Mike and Ray were divided on some things, and they split up over the doctrinal differences they had. Ray even wrote a paper addressing the differences they had, but I cannot find it at the moment.

I decided to share some things I had learned in my studies with that aforementioned TikTok group, but none of them would have it. Their leader even accused me of putting my own "exegetical" explanation of the topic, whatever that means.  I thought of all the people I shared with, they were the ones that would have rejoiced. Now I feel silly and even a bit sad for having shared what I learned with them. It dawned on me these were the very wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned about. They were subtle with the hate that came out of their mouths toward anyone who didn't agree with them. It's not just them, but the Church as a whole, are unable to receive things of the spirit, so I honestly shouldn't be surprised.

Having said all that, there is some good that comes out from me participating in these TikTok chats. Jesus knew what He was doing when He sent His sheep out among the wolves. I just pray I'm not a wolf myself.

Wendy, that's precisely how I feel, too. I begin to question myself with "who do I think I am?". I hate that feeling too.

[Musterseed]

Ah yes ,the fiery trails of 1:Peter 4:12, your faith being tested.

James 1:19... know this my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear,
slow to speak, slow to anger, for the anger of man does not produce the
righteousness of God.

The anger of man and what do we know about angry men?

They despise the word of God. All of them.
Isa.30:12, 5:20, and 24 Chapter 1:vs. 4,

My sister and I had a discussion about why we want to shout from the rooftops
about Our Lord and believing our new found knowledge, We had to dig deep
within ourselves . Yes we want everyone to know what we know, but how do you explain to a bunch of know it alls that they don't know it all. You then will look
like the know it all who has a free will attitude of arrogance. It will backfire.
And this we have to experience because it's humbling us. But digging deeper
my sister and I realized that sometimes we ourselves were relishing in the idea
of knowing more than others. God knocked us both off of our high horses more than
once. We are learning to turn the other cheek and is so much better and peaceful.
Nevertheless the trials keep coming and according to Ray they don't get easier.
God gives us bigger trials each time. We have to learn to appreciate them. Not an
easy thing to do however, but we learn, we have to, to overcome this wicked
evil world. It's painful, physically, mentally, and emotionally , but spiritually, it's
producing the righteousness of God. Thank God.

May God give you strength and comfort to continue to fight the good fight Porter.
In Christ Pamela

[Musterseed]

Oh , sorry Wendy , I forgot to thank you for your comment so Thank you my friend.
💐💐💐💐 here are some flowers for me lady. 😁

[Dennis Vogel]

Pamela, I recently started sharing on TikTok of all places. I had been avoiding that place like the plague because of all the bad things I heard about it. It's true, there is a lot of bad on there, but there is some good as well. I even ran into a group that teaches the salvation of all, as Ray and somebody named Mike Vinson taught it. This group has bible studies with Mike and his circle, from what I understand. I read some of Mike's work, and it was practically a word for word copy of what Ray taught. Furthermore, I'm aware that Mike and Ray were divided on some things, and they split up over the doctrinal differences they had. Ray even wrote a paper addressing the differences they had, but I cannot find it at the moment.

I decided to share some things I had learned in my studies with that aforementioned TikTok group, but none of them would have it. Their leader even accused me of putting my own "exegetical" explanation of the topic, whatever that means.  I thought of all the people I shared with, they were the ones that would have rejoiced. Now I feel silly and even a bit sad for having shared what I learned with them. It dawned on me these were the very wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned about. They were subtle with the hate that came out of their mouths toward anyone who didn't agree with them. It's not just them, but the Church as a whole, are unable to receive things of the spirit, so I honestly shouldn't be surprised.

Having said all that, there is some good that comes out from me participating in these TikTok chats. Jesus knew what He was doing when He sent His sheep out among the wolves. I just pray I'm not a wolf myself.

Wendy, that's precisely how I feel, too. I begin to question myself with "who do I think I am?". I hate that feeling too.

As a rule we do not allow teaching from other sites/people because it almost always ends badly.

But here is the Mike link, but let's not talk about Mike or other sites any more please:

https://bible-truths.com/mike.htm

[Porter]

You got it Dennis, and thanks for the link.

[Porter]

You're probably right, Pamela. I think part of my problem is believing I have anything to offer at all. God through Ray has taught me so much, and I should be content with that to keep the peace as much as possible. I may have to reevaluate some things for a while. If this house has to fall again, so be it.

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm not sure this answer will cover all the nuance of the question, but I'm gonna type anyway.

I wish I could find the passage, but Paul speaks to this "inability to the point of impossibility" to express a Spiritual thought to a carnal mind, addressing one of the churches.  And I'm sorry, but "theology hobbyists" are expressions of a carnal mind even if they are in possession of some sound teaching/doctrine.  Spiritual truths must be lived, and that is very very hard.  So my "words" just sort of lay there flopping.  Of course they sound silly when you have to dumb down deep, hard-won, lived treasures for the ears of minors.  But you don't know who's day it is for the fruit of the foolishness of preaching to sprout.

On the other hand, we are admonished to "correct a brother at fault" with "meekness, considering ourselves lest we also are tempted".  It's easy--at least it is for me--to attempt to over-correct and try to be the savior and say things that dig a hole of my own.  Ray was a good example.  He answered often silly, "milky" questions with something of an innate sense of how "spiritual" to push the discussion.  If I had been answering those thousands of emails I would have let no opportunity to radically reorganize the spiritual lives of the questioners pass.  And that, in itself, is silly.

Finally, this.  I don't want to launch into a big exposition right now.  And I won't at all unless you want me to.  But I think what you are talking about is part of what is being talked about in Romans 7, decently translated.  I don't think Paul lacked boldness or wisdom in any way, but I think he ran into his own limits in expressing it.

In your case, however, you should consider being ashamed of putting your "own "exegetical" explanation of the topic" out there in public for everybody to see.   That's just not right!                     

Ecc 9:13  This wisdom I saw also under the sun, and it is great to me:
Ecc 9:14  There was a little city, and few men in it. And a great king came against it, and besieged it, and built huge siege works against it.
Ecc 9:15  And there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom saved the city. Yet no man remembered that poor man!
Ecc 9:16  And I said, Wisdom is better than strength; but the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.
Ecc 9:17  The words of wise men are heard in quiet, more than the cry of one who rules among fools.
Ecc 9:18  Wisdom is better than weapons of conflict; but one sinner destroys much good.

I've known you a long time, Porter.  I know you wrestle with the angel.

[Musterseed]

From Despising the Word of God Transcript.

Dave I don't know if this is what you are referring to but I will put it out there as I
believe it is paramount.

Romans 11 whole chapter but here is what Ray wrote in this transcript which
certainly holds a lot of weight to this point of view and much knowledge on
prophecies.
Rom. 11:7.... What then ? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeks for.
But the election( the group God called out) hath obtained it, and the rest were
blinded.

V8.... ( according as it is written) God hath given them the Spirit of slumber,
eyes that should not see.

Who gave them those eyes? God! Have you heard a sermon in your life that
taught that God take whole nations of people and blinds them so that they can't
see spiritual truth, have you have heard that? No you haven't. Why? They despise
the word of God that's why. They loathe it, every last one of them.

Verse 8 ... and ears they should not hear unto this day.

Who did that? God did that.Ray.

I have learned .....me.
It's why Jesus spoke in parables and why Christ said" if they hated Me , they will hate
you. I have also learned that this is not just talking about Christians. My persecution
has all come from non believers who are my family members. God has not put
me among  Christians hardly. Yet!😮😁

[Porter]

Thanks Dave, that means a lot. His words are spirit and life. If it isn't to give life when we use His words, it's just noise. Thanks for bearing with me, you and all. It's been rough, but this house remains intact.