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[Richard Whittemore]

I am interested in learning more of this subject . I'm convinced it's impossible for them to be the first humans .

[indianabob]

Hello Richard,

It is a matter of God given faith.
Either you believe the scripture or you don't.
Usually faith comes gradually over time as you study and debate within yourself.
No one gets faith of their own free will. It is a gift of God.

Please be very patient with our Father God, we are his beloved creation.
Bob

[Porter]

I agree Adam and Eve were not the first humans, but could we agree at the very least that Adam was the first man?

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Ever wondered in what way was Adam the first man? Was Adam perhaps the first condition of man? God did after all form Adam from the “dust of the earth” and breathed the breath or spirit of life into him. What's the difference between 1Co 15:45 cited above and Gen 2:7?

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Is it possible that Paul in 1Co 15:45 is giving us the correct order of the events from Gen 2:7? Is Gen 2:7 a condensed version of God's purpose for the Elect to the world?

I'm not completely sold on any of this, hence all the question marks. I am curious nonetheless.

[Dennis Vogel]

Gen 3:20  And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. 

Mat 8:22  But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. 

Do you see the connection?

[Porter]

I think I do, Dennis. Is Gen 3:20 saying that Eve is the mother of all those who are spiritually alive and that Mat 8:22 proves there are those who are spiritually dead even though they are physically alive?
 
There was talk on this forum some time ago that went something like, “Adam and Eve were not the first humans, but they were the first something. Therefore, God must have created Adam and Eve for a special purpose aside from the humans created before them”. If I recall correctly, the special purpose that was concluded was so Adam could till the ground.

Gen_2:5  And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Consider that if there were humans before Adam and Eve, none of them could till the ground if and because of the stated fact, “…there was not a man to till the ground.” Adam was formed from the dust of the earth, AND THEN God breathed His Spirit into him sometime on the sixth “day”. We know from Ray papers that the English day from the Genesis creation account is translated from the Hebrew yom, which can mean a long period of time.

So I can't say for sure that God formed Adam from the dust and breathed into him life all in the same moment. I can see how Adam was formed from dust if it had yet to rain on the earth, as it must have been “dry ground”.

I believe the Genesis creation account were prophecies, or visions as Daniel would call them.

Dan 8:26  And the morning and evening vision that was told is true. But you shall shut up the vision, for it shall be for many days.

Is the following verse the vision Daniel is referring to?

Gen 1:31  God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. Evening came, and then morning: the sixth day.

The sixth “day” is when God created man. When I compared the sixth day in the Genesis creation account with Daniel 8:15-27, I couldn't help but to see the whole plan of God from start to finish toward all mankind.

There is a quote from Ray (which I can't seem to find) where he said something like, “the entire plan of God for humanity can be found from the beginning in Genesis”. Ray used Isa_46:10 as his proof text.

Isa_46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ray then showed what that end was as declared by God from the beginning.

Gen 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

Below is a quote from Ray that I never forgot and left an impression on me. I think it's relevant to this discussion.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,8385.0.html

Onkelos that translates where it says everything “was very good” and he says everything was an “unified order.” At that point it was a unified order. What was it before? It was chaos, then every created period went from chaos to order… from chaos to order… from chaos to order until finally at the end of the six periods, everything was a unified order. That’s how God got rid of the chaos. God uses a process. Why does He use that process? Why does He do a lot of things? God does strange things.

Onkelos perceived that a qualitative change in the nature of the universe had occurred. A change from disorder without the possibility of life, to order with life.

There is a lot in that first chapter of Genesis, there is a lot in there.
===============================================================================

[Dennis Vogel]

Is the following verse the vision Daniel is referring to?

Gen 1:31  God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. Evening came, and then morning: the sixth day.

Watch this video:  https://youtu.be/NlRdT8N-Ais?si=mVa2LmH52_dsvFE_

[Porter]

Thanks, Dennis, I watched it. I've probably read the transcript for that video two or three times over the years, and it's just as true now as it was then.

Was there something in particular you wanted me to understand from that video? I see you quoted my question, so I'm assuming that particular question has something to do with the video that I'm unable to make a connection with.

I actually thought what I said and asked was right in line with what Ray taught. However, I may have been a little too vague about it. Sorry about that.

[Dennis Vogel]

Thanks, Dennis, I watched it. I've probably read the transcript for that video two or three times over the years, and it's just as true now as it was then.

Was there something in particular you wanted me to understand from that video? I see you quoted my question, so I'm assuming that particular question has something to do with the video that I'm unable to make a connection with.

I actually thought what I said and asked was right in line with what Ray taught. However, I may have been a little too vague about it. Sorry about that.

The point is man was NOT done being made so Gen 1:31 did not apply to mankind.

[Porter]

Ah, I see now. You and Ray are absolutely right, and I thoroughly agree. It turns out I was a little too vague. When I said the Genesis creation account is a prophecy, I meant that to mean it was yet to come about for the majority of mankind.

I guess I just assumed everyone had read where Ray said and showed from the Scripture that the creation of man is a process and that is still ongoing.

I'll be more thorough next time I make statements or ask questions regarding what I believe.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Richard.  I'm on my phone and unable to post a link, but the most coverage Ray gave the subject was in and at the Nashville conference in 2008.  I think you will find it useful.

[Dave in Tenn]

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,9130.msg76395.html#msg76395

Here it is.