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[Nick Reading]

...And I've come to learn that usually means there's something I'm not seeing. I'm in the facebook group (where I haven't always been as polite as I should be) and I posted in here in 2013 under a very similar screen name and I made the most recent post before this one under the same screen name I'm using now. When I ask questions, I'm often told to read the entire lake of fire series and I finally got through the whole thing not long ago. I'm also told to read the emails section. I was doing that, and I came across this:

https://bible-truths.com/email14.htm#man
"Zachariah was JUST before God" (Luke 1:5).

Vs.

"NOT ONE is JUST" (Rom. 3:10).

Again, Zachariah was "just" FROM MAN'S point of view. When comparing him with all the other corrupt priests, Zachariah certainly appeared to be JUST. But from God's ABSOLUTE point of view, not even Zachariah was just.

I looked up Luke 1:5-6 and here's what is says:
In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.

Ray says that they were only just from man's point of view, but the scripture says they were righteous "in the sight of God". I'm not bringing this up as a "gotcha" (although, I would probably think I was pretty hot stuff if I managed to identify a place where Ray was wrong) but, like I said at the beginning of this post, it usually means there's something I'm not seeing. So what is it?

[Dennis Vogel]

Luke 1:6 - Word translated "Just" and or "Righteous" Strong's:

dik'-ah-yos
From G1349;
equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).

[Nick Reading]

Respectfully, that doesn't answer my question. The text that I put in bold and underlined says that Zacheriah and his wife were just (righteous, etc.) Before God. Ray says they were only so in the eyes of men. I get that contrasting Luke 1:5 against Rom. 3:10 is meant to show that one is relative and the other absolute, but with that in mind, they still would have been just (relatively) in the sight of God, not only men.

[Dennis Vogel]

Luke 1:5 and Romans 3:10 use the exact same word which can mean absolute or relative. So I don't see a problem.

[Nick Reading]

My problem is not with absolute or relative, but rather perspective. The text says that these two people were righteous in the eyes of God, Ray says that they were righteous merely in the eyes of men.

[Nick Reading]

To put it another way, I understand that in one way, a person can be righteous and blameless by living according to the old covenant rules (which is exactly how the text says that Zachariah and his wife were righteous) but in another, grander sense, those things don't actually make one righteous (as per Paul's confession that all of his adherence to the old laws meant nothing, as does physical circumcision) and that no one is good but God.

Even still, that relative righteousness is said in the text to be in the eyes of God and Ray says that it was only in the eyes of men.

Now, either this is one of those examples where the bible doesn't mean what it says and we have to take the whole council of god into account, which is why I'm bringing this up, or Ray was just wrong about this particular point. Everybody makes mistakes and when he was alive, he was firing off responses left and right. It would be understandable.

[Musterseed]

 No one is righteous…. Psalm 14
Rom.3:9…What then,are we Jews any better off? No, not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are under sin..10… as it is written: None is righteous, no not one; 11..no one understands, no one seeks God..12… all have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good not even
one.

Rom.3. 19…. Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be accountable to God 20… by works of the law ( old covenant) no human being will
be justified in His sight, since through the law comes KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Psalm 143:2…. .. for no one living is righteous before you.

Gal.5:18… but if you are led by the spirit , you are not under the law .
(What law? The one written on tablets of stone.)

1 Thes. 2:13… and we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received
the word of God  , which you heard from us you accepted it not as the word of men
but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers .

John 6:63… It is the Spirit that quickens . The flesh profits nothing; the words that I speak unto you , they are Spirit and they are life.
Witness 1 Corth.15:45

There were many who were said to be righteous .Zec. And Elizabeth, Job, Noah,
Joseph of Arimathea, Simeon, and many more who all died in faith, never receiving
the promise, because God had something more excellent. The new spiritual covenant of Jesus which requires a higher understanding , thankfully provided by
Christ.

Christ said in Luke 5:32… “ I have not come to save the righteous ( that’s tongue in cheek, there are none righteous, only self righteous.) but sinners to repentance.
Witness Mark 2:17…. those who are sick….

Rom.8:2.   For the law of the spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Knowledge of the two laws is very important. Sermon on the Mount, Hebrews chapters  8 and 9 .
Have you read and studied the 12 truths.

Ray did not contradict the scriptures by saying that they were righteous merely in the eyes of men. Humans are carnal minded. Rom.8:6-8 & 1 Corth.2:14.
Jer.17:9 the heart is deceitful above all things , and desperately wicked( exceedingly weak ) who can know it?
All hearts are exceedingly weak, too weak to resist sin and the wages of sin…….
Death. The only cure is Christ in you and everyone else. All have come short of the glory of God.All means All, even Zechariah and Elizabeth.

Isa.26:9… when thy judgements are in the earth the inhabitants of the world
will learn righteousness.
Then and only then , praise God.


May God give you much insight into His words of spirit.
In Christ, Pamela

[Nick Reading]

Thank you for your advice. I've read through the 12 spiritual truths and am now going over them again to study them.