Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nick Reading]

Hi everyone. I'm reading through Ray's paper on Lazarus and the rich man. He's emphatic that "sleep" or "sleeping" is an accurate and biblical description of death, as in the dead are not conscious. He uses lots of texts to support this, but how can it be that if there is no consciousness in death, then how could Christ have made proclamation to the "imprisoned spirits" of 1 Peter 3:19-20?

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

I'm not trying to start a fight or prove ray a liar or anything like that. I've been deeply troubled by the threat of hell for decades now and I'm testing Ray's theses against the claims of some of the most hardline hellfire and brimstone preachers out there and I want to make sure I have everything locked down.

Thanks.

[Porter]

Hi Nick, the only explanation that I can think of is that Jesus wasn't dead when He made the proclamations. The translation you are using states it was after Jesus was made alive in the spirit that He made the proclamation.

If you do a search with the term “spirits in prison” on this forum, you'll find many a good discussion over the years on the verses in question.

[Nick Reading]

Thank you. I checked it out and there's some good stuff there.

[arion]

Hi Ray Rob here again.
Was wondering if I could get your views on a few difficult scriptures, and what you believe the holy spirit is saying.
1) The outer darkness and its place spoken in Jude 1:6-7
Where do you think it is and does it have any relevance to humans?
 
2)The spirits in prison spoken about in 1 Peter 3:19
Can you explain this place and is it before Jesus death (after)?
 
3)The second death in revelation 20:14
Is this the death of the unrepented unsaved souls, after the white throne judgement?
 
Also whats your standing about an immortal soul I dont see any scripture to believe there is.
Only God is immortal (1tim 1:17)
Seems to be this strange teaching around about an immortal soul. Propbably to back up there eternal hellfire

punishment..... Of course its very subtle but its there has to be, otherwise God couldn't punish you forever.
God bless  Rob


Dear Rob:  First, I have already written pretty extensively on "the second death" in my "Lake of Fire"
series.  Also I have given a technical/Scriptural study on the immortal soul heresy in my "Lake of Fire"
series, Installment 16, titled: "Hades and the Second Death."  I am not sure how you missed that?  I
had plans to start another Installment in my Lake of Fire series, which would have included such
phrases as "outer darkness," etc., but my health got too bad to continue that Installment.  I have
since worked an entire year on my paper: "Hell is a Christian Hoax," which I believe to be a paper of
paramount importance.  There is a host of Scriptures in the same category of I Pet. 3:19, II Peter 2:4,
etc., that needs to be dealt with as a whole, but which I just have not considered a priority at this time

Truth is, Rob, I don't have the time or energy to write back to nearly four thousand people just to tell
them that I don't have the time to write back to them with answers to their questions.  If I live long
enough, I will get to most of these remaining subjects.  In the mean time, keep studying the material
I have already written.  Hope you understand.

God be with you,

Ray

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,12603.msg110397.html#msg110397

[octoberose]

Is he not referring to the spirits of the time of Noah : spirits who are not and never were human ?

[Porter]

Going off memory, no Rose, He is talking about us who have been called and to whom “the end of the age” (to where ever you are in this spiritual age) has come. Noah as a type of mankind is the first and the physical shadow. Jesus is the light and also the last “something” and the spiritual reality of what we will become.
The time of Noah was a mere shadow or example of the type of human we were. Kind of like when we were in the image of Adam, who was of the dust, or carnality. The time of Jesus, which is now, is what we will become, which is opposed to carnality.
Does that make sense?

[Musterseed]

Put Spirits in prison in the search engine for the answer from Kat and Alex on this
from the teaching Ray gave

2 Pet.2:4…. for if God did not spare angels when they sinned ,but cast them into hell
( Gehenna) and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness, to be kept until the
judgement.

Jude 1:6….and the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority
but left their proper dwelling, He has kept in chains under gloomy darkness until
the judgement of the great day.

Matt. 25:41…. Then He will say to those on His left, “ depart from Me you cursed
into the eternal( eonian) fire( Gehenna) prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jude 1:16…. These are grumbles , malcontents,, following their own sinful desires
etc. etc. etc.

These are humans , the false teachers , preachers, pastors I believe.

God does put His Elect in prison sometimes though Porter. May be that’s where you are now. By the way Octoberose, the post I just read from 2016 on this very subject
was from you .Hang in there everyone, God didn’t raise no pansies.

[Nick Reading]

@musterseed
I did what you said with the search engine and it only gives me references to this conversation. Can you provide a link to what you're telling me about?

Nick

[Musterseed]

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone asked me for a link.
I’m sorry Nick but I have never been able to give links on this I-pad.
Maybe someone in our group can assist you.

Rev.20:10,  and the devil who had deceived them were thrown into
the lake of fire( Gehenna fire) where the beast and the false prophet
were, and they will be tormented ( not tortured) day and night forever and ever.
( eonian).

A few more scriptures

Rev.16:13-14, & 1Tim. 4:1…… some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and TEACHING (only teachers teach) of demons. V4… through
the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, …….
Jude 1:3-16.   

I hope this helps.

[Dave in Tenn]

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,16643.msg150721.html#msg150721

Is this the one?

[Musterseed]

Yes, this is the one I read. Thank you very much Dave. There are probably
more discussions regarding this topic in the search engine. I really enjoy
reading many older topics .