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What is Sin? And who originated this post?
YellowStone:
What is Sin? And who originated this post?
Of course the answer to both can only be GOD!
Rev 1:8
* I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
But from whence does sin come?
Isa 45:7
* I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (sin): I the LORD do all these [things].
God clearly states that he is the creator of evil, which fathers' hate. But are we not instructed that God is love.
1Jo 4:8
* He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Certainly without question, God is before all things and it is he that created both evil (sin) and love. The question is now, do we love God out of choice, and in the same manner do we choose to sin?
The scriptures answer this plainly:
Jer 10:23
* O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
1Th 3:11
* Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
Does this mean that God has predetermined all of our steps, actions and thoughts? Yes.
Romans 9:20-21
* Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Rom 8:20
* For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:27
* And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.
Rom 8:28
* And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
This is a very important verse and should not be over looked:.....to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
Yes, it is God who selects us, not us him.....
2Cr 5:18
* And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Rom 8:29
* For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
1Cr 15:3
* For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
God forenew that Christ would have to die for "OUR" sins. Now what is this....All things are of God (including sin) and it not up to us to even direct our step, how then can the sin be OURS? Did we do something without God knowing about it? Of course not! :)
So then, back to the orignal question of this post. What is Sin?
Unless, I am grossly mistaken, sin is nothing more than we, the people following God's plan. (will/purpose) Or in other words a foreordained event.
2Cr 5:21
* For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
So then, is sin wrong? How can it be, unless God is wrong; so then, likewise, evil atrocities like 911 orchestrated by Satan, are not wrong in the sense that God directed the terrorist steps.
So, if we see such acts as being evil, by whom are we seeing? By God, for it is his love for us according to his purpose for each of us to see the difference between good and evil, love and hate.
But are we any better than such evil doers? The answer can only be a resounding NO!! Because we are nothing without God; each one of us is doing God's will....the ones that try to live by God and those that profess to be satanists. Each one is living according to the purpose of God.
My final statement is: Any thought of anger, distrust, hate towards another is nothing other than hate towards God and his plan.
My final question is: Who originated the thought? You or God.
I have been wrestling with these thoughts for a while now. Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Darren
Layla:
WOW...No offense, but I totally disagree with your reasoning.
What scriptures cause you to conclude that evil is sin?
Peace,
Layla
Kat:
Hi Yellowstone,
Let's consider some of the points you made.
--- Quote ---2Cr 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
So then, is sin wrong? How can it be, unless God is wrong; so then, likewise, evil atrocities like 911 orchestrated by Satan, are not wrong in the sense that God directed the terrorist steps.
So, if we see such acts as being evil, by whom are we seeing? By God, for it is his love for us according to his purpose for each of us to see the difference between good and evil, love and hate.
But are we any better than such evil doers? The answer can only be a resounding NO!! Because we are nothing without God; each one of us is doing God's will....the ones that try to live by God and those that profess to be satanists. Each one is living according to the purpose of God.
--- End quote ---
In this verse Christ was not made to be sin,
but a sin offering, (there was a topic 'He was made sin' a while back, that went into this fully.
Is sin wrong? Let's look at these scripture.
1Jo 3:8 The person who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning. The reason that the Son of God was revealed was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.
It was God who intended, from the beginning that Satan and man sin.
That does not make God a sinner. For sin is a "mistake", a "missing of the mark",
a "falling short of the glory of God" (Thayer definition).
Man (and Satan) is accountable for his sins, because we sinned willingly from the heart,
but God takes responsibility for their sin,
and therefore had already provided them a Saviour before the foundation of the world,
1Peter 1:19-20, Rev. 13:8.
God will save everyone by bring them to repentance, and purging them,
and turning their hearts to God, through the purging of His Spiritual fire.
There are 2 applications of God's purging fire.
The first is on the House of God, consisting of those whom God is calling to be overcomers
and sons of God, in the kingdom, at Christ's return to earth, (1Peter 4:17).
The second will be at the second resurrection and white throne judgment,
in the lake of God's divine purging fire. (Rev. 21:08).
Are we better than anybody else?
I don't think so, this is who God is choosing now.
1Co 1:26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
1Co 1:27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;
1Co 1:28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
1Co 1:29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
This is just what I have come to believe about these things.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
YellowStone:
Quote from Layla:
WOW...No offense, but I totally disagree with your reasoning.
What scriptures cause you to conclude that evil is sin?
Layla, unless my powers of deduction are flawed; we are sinners and sin is evil. I think the following words of Jesus indicate this very well.
Mark 7:20-22
* And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mark 7:20-22
* All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Mat 7:18-20
* A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
How shall we know them? By their (evil) fruits, which are of course their actions and words. What actiions? sinnful actions producing evil.
Even Paul faught with the evil inside of him:
Rom 7:19
* For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:21
* I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 9:11
* (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 12:9
* [Let] love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Rom 12:17
* Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:21
* Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Rom 13:3
* For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4
* For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.
I hope this helps.
With Love,
Darren
YellowStone:
Kat,
I really believe that we are on the same page here, but let's have a closer look :)
2Cr 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
In this verse Christ was not made to be sin,
but a sin offering, (there was a topic 'He was made sin' a while back, that went into this fully.
Yes, this is a interesting verse, but no where did I even imply that God made Jesus sin. :) Of course he was a sin offering. (No confusion here)
Is sin wrong? Let's look at these scripture.
1Jo 3:8 The person who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning. The reason that the Son of God was revealed was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.
Is sin the total opposite of love? Of course it is, because sin is everything that love is not, and just as John states "who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been sinning since the beginning"
i want to make a quick note on 1 John 3:9.
There has only been one "man" born from God and that is the man Jesus Christ.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I hope you are not implying that there is any man, woman or child walking the Earth today, free of sin? Even Paul knew that he was not free of sin. :)
So is sin wrong? Once again the act of sin does no good! Or is that the whole truth?
God created Satan for we know that God created evil. Why? For our instruction, surely the answer can be nothing else. Plese tell me what if I am wrong. So is sin wrong? Well it is an act of evil and sin surely isn't righteous. So then is sin pointless? Not if we learn from it.
It was God who intended, from the beginning that Satan and man sin.
That does not make God a sinner. For sin is a "mistake", a "missing of the mark",
a "falling short of the glory of God" (Thayer definition).
Man (and Satan) is accountable for his sins, because we sinned willingly from the heart,
but God takes responsibility for their sin,
and therefore had already provided them a Saviour before the foundation of the world,
Kat you will have to show me where I even remotely implied that God is a sinner :)
Are you saying here: Man (and Satan) is accountable for his sins, because we sinned willingly from the heart, of our own free will and choice, even when we are told that:
Jer 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man [is] not in himself: [it is] not in man that walketh to direct his steps
Ray writes of this in his here http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
It is generally taught that Adam and Eve were spiritually perfect immediately after their creation, seeing that it says,
"And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good…" (Gen. 1:31).
Never mind the fact that even poisonous snakes were also "very good." Of course everything God made was "good." It was, in fact, even "perfect"—perfect, that is, for the purpose for which it was created.
But did our first parents have perfect and good spiritual character of heart when God completed them? Absolutely not! Far from it! They were as carnal-minded as any two people who have ever lived.
The Scriptures show us that Eve committed every known category of sin there is, before she ever ate of the forbidden fruit. This one should knock your socks off. It knocked mine off when I first discovered it.
Nothing and I mean nothing happens or has happened or will happen (Is, Was and Will Be) with out the foreknowledge of God.
Is sin wrong if God will's it? Can we truly still say "YES!"
I don't think so.
Thanks for the exchange of ideas :)
With Love,
Darren
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