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Author Topic: will vs providence  (Read 3348 times)

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eutychus

  • Guest
will vs providence
« on: March 27, 2006, 12:13:06 PM »

comments will be appreciated.

 Is it Gods will that we be angry? or Gods will that there is sin in our life.
or that bad things happen???

 OR

 is it that in the providence of God looking down through time he uses the things for a purpose known  to him?


 what is the difference between Gods will and Gods providence?
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Mickyd

  • Guest
Re: will vs providence
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2006, 12:20:59 PM »

Quote from: eutychus
comments will be appreciated.

 Is it Gods will that we be angry? or Gods will that there is sin in our life.
or that bad things happen???

 OR

 is it that in the providence of God looking down through time he uses the things for a purpose known  to him?


 what is the difference between Gods will and Gods providence?


The way I see it it that "Providence" is the design or foresight God uses to direct his "Will". Kind of like a road map. He sees whos life he much touch in order to bring about a desired effect. Sometimes many lives must be touched to bring about an event to effect only one person. So...when something bad happens to a good person, it may very well be for someone elses benifit.
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eutychus

  • Guest
Re: will vs providence
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2006, 12:22:21 PM »

Quote from: Mickyd
Quote from: eutychus
comments will be appreciated.

 Is it Gods will that we be angry? or Gods will that there is sin in our life.
or that bad things happen???

 OR

 is it that in the providence of God looking down through time he uses the things for a purpose known  to him?


 what is the difference between Gods will and Gods providence?


The way I see it it that "Providence" is the design or foresight God uses to direct his "Will". Kind of like a road map. He sees whos life he much touch in order to bring about a desired effect. Sometimes many lives must be touched to bring about an event to effect only one person. So...when something bad happens to a good person, it may very well be for someone elses benifit.





good we are headed in the right direction with this!!

thanks and love
chuckt
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ertsky

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2006, 12:31:18 PM »

i was reminded of these verse but i'm not sure if they will help

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

i can't wait to die

i am so impatient to get face to face

to know as i am known

to see Him as He is

to ask about three billion questions

but until then i guess it's patient endurance in Christ

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

sometimes i get a little frustrated with the dark glass and wish i could just smash it

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

but then

Mar 15:38  And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Heb 6:19  Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20  Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

my brain hurts and i need a cup of tea LOL!

f
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jennie

  • Guest
God's will
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 12:32:10 PM »

I will be the first to say I don't really understand the beliefs of this forum or what is allowed to speak about. I will go ahead and say what I think and maybe it will come out right and won't make anyone angry! We live in our pitifully human bodies that are declining each day. That is a part of life. There are good things that happen and bad things that happen. I believe it is God's will  that we take these things and let God get glory out of even the worst circumstances.Our attitude can make a difference in people's lives and God uses us in that way. As God is our heavenly Father He has so much love for us and wants the best for us but we don't live in a perfect place yet. I love my daughter yet I can't stop bad things from happening. She learns from those as I hope me and her Daddy learn also. The Bible speaks of Satan going to and fro amongst the earth seeking whom he may destroy. That is the sins of this world and what we do with that sin is on us.
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: will vs providence
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 12:35:09 PM »

Quote from: eutychus
comments will be appreciated.

 Is it Gods will that we be angry? or Gods will that there is sin in our life.
or that bad things happen???

 OR

 is it that in the providence of God looking down through time he uses the things for a purpose known  to him?


 what is the difference between Gods will and Gods providence?

Hello euty,


 Providence: definintion--The care, guardianship, and control exercised by a deity; divine direction.

It seems to be a very fine line drawn between control and will.  You could even say there is no difference ultimately.

If there is some sort of divine direction rather than control then there would be posited some element of choice given.  I guess it comes down to whether you believe man can exercise a will of his own limited within boundaries or if man can only do God's will and really is in a situation similar to Occam's razor where a plurality of wills is unnecessary.


Certainly an interesting question and fraught with many avenues for debate.



feat
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eutychus

  • Guest
Re: will vs providence
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2006, 12:44:39 PM »

Quote from: Harryfeat
Quote from: eutychus
comments will be appreciated.

 Is it Gods will that we be angry? or Gods will that there is sin in our life.
or that bad things happen???

 OR

 is it that in the providence of God looking down through time he uses the things for a purpose known  to him?


 what is the difference between Gods will and Gods providence?

Hello euty,


 Providence: definintion--The care, guardianship, and control exercised by a deity; divine direction.

It seems to be a very fine line drawn between control and will.  You could even say there is no difference ultimately.

If there is some sort of divine direction rather than control then there would be posited some element of choice given.  I guess it comes down to whether you believe man can exercise a will of his own limited within boundaries or if man can only do God's will and really is in a situation similar to Occam's razor where a plurality of wills is unnecessary.


Certainly an interesting question and fraught with many avenues for debate.



feat




smellyfeat. :lol:

greetings friend!!!

 i have been thrust ito new directions of study and love it!!

determinism, laplaces demon, physics, etc.


 i am grounded in the fact we have boundries that cannot be crossed.
however i beleive we make choices inside those boundries in which God uses to teach and correct us,(providence) i am seeing God as bigger and bigger everyday.

us being flesh and bound by time is also used to blind and keep those in prison unti it is time for their release.


for me, we see it as us doing something, and in a way we are active participants, but God has already place in my life the causes and obticals for tomorrow and beyond, therfor:

Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof.

Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Job 14:5 Seeing his days [are] determined, the number of his months [are] with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;


Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


and so on :wink:
love
chuckt
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Mickyd

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2006, 01:02:22 PM »

This is the full definition.

Providence

1. Care or preparation in advance; foresight.

2. Prudent management; economy.

3. The care, guardianship, and control exercised by a deity; divine direction: ‚ÄúSome sought the key to history in the working of divine providence‚Ä? (William Ebenstein).

4. Providence God.

One of Ameriica's early Presidents used it this way...

John Adams

              ‚ÄúAs nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world, they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects, providence punishes National sins by National calamities.‚Ä?
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eutychus

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2006, 01:04:53 PM »

:-k

isnt that what was said?

Pronoeo 4:1009,636
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pron-o-eh'-o      Verb  
 
 Definition
to perceive before, foresee
to provide, think of beforehand
to provide for one
to take thought for, care for a thing
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Mickyd

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2006, 01:49:19 PM »

Quote from: eutychus
:-k

isnt that what was said?

Pronoeo 4:1009,636
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pron-o-eh'-o      Verb  
 
 Definition
to perceive before, foresee
to provide, think of beforehand
to provide for one
to take thought for, care for a thing


Yeah....that's it.  :D
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Peacetroll

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2006, 01:55:35 PM »

Jeremiah 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. :wink:  :!:
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eutychus

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2006, 07:23:22 PM »

Quote from: Shoeman
Depends on your definitions really.

Do you mean by will that God wants us to be angry? Or that he's deliberately making us angry?

Providence is his plan, if you like. It's the efforts of his will coming together flawlessly.

So when you ask if it's God's will or Providence for us to be angry, the answer is: It's both.



its never God will for us to be angry, but in his prvidence he used it to teach us, and to mold us.
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eutychus

  • Guest
will vs providence
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2006, 07:30:48 PM »

Quote from: Shoeman
Does he not work his will on Providence? Providence is the plan by which he teaches and molds us. As you said. But does he not have to implement his Will to teach us? Would he not want us to be angry in the end result that we will learn from it?



works his will through or in his for knowlagde of what we would do
or the choices we make.


yes
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: God's will
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2006, 07:53:15 PM »

Quote from: jennie
I will be the first to say I don't really understand the beliefs of this forum or what is allowed to speak about.


Hi Jennie,

Anyone can speak about anything (within reason). It is pretending to ask questions but having an agenda that we do not like.

Anyway: There is God's will and there is God's intention. Two different things.

Dennis
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