questions I am afraid to ask

[hart4god]

Hi,
I have read all of Ray's posted material. I have read some of it twice and studied some of it.
I have NOT been able to read/study the Bible very much on my own. All I hear when I open the Word is the programmed theology of the past 28 years of my Christian life. It is so hard to break through. I feel at times that the Bible is beyond my comprehension now. That it is impossible for me to understand the deeper things. It is all so confusing. Yet, I know that all I ever wanted was to know the Truth, but I feel that I am at a standstill beacuse everything I thought was, is really not. I have had my eyes opened to Bible Truths probably since early March of this year.

Has any one been at this place? I feel frozen. and I am so utterly frustated and I am so completely confused about this life....
-is everything that happens in my life God's plan? are we puppets? chess pieces?
-does prayer change anything  besides my perspective? and does my perspective even matter?
-does God actively intervene- isn't eveything already set in stone?

One college class I took many years ago described a theology of God as the "watchmaker".
He wound up the world long ago and now it is ticking out its time......and he has no direct dealings with any of it. It is completely finished.....
because I cannot study right now (in times past- I was fervent in my devotions and study time), I am feeling very hopeless about all things in this life and even in the world to come.

is this a normal process and will there be a breakthrough even though I cannot open the Bible right now?
sorry to sound so dumb- I have been afraid to ask any questions but I am getting no where on my own- and certainly no one I know really has any insight that is not linked into mainstream Christianity's doctrines. Yes, I do seek God, converse with Him, etc, and feel very consious of Him and desperately need Him at all times......I do want to know.

you guys are it.
should I just go soak my head?
judie h.

[YellowStone]

Hi Judie,

Do not fret my friend, I for one know exactly what you say. Feeling lost and confused and totally unsure whom are acting as angels of light and whom are not is scary to the extreme.

I handled it in my own way and I am not for a moment saying it will work for you or anyone else, but here goes.

First off, know deep in your hear that God is with you and for you always. Feel him, listen to him, know him and trust him. Believe it or not, this was far easier than I ever imagined. One does not need scripture to come to God. One does not need to attend the church of man, nor fervently follow their traditions. Your walk with God is your walk; not mine or any others. Just you and God.

I would and still do isolate myself from distraction, just so that I can be alone with God. Some may call it meditation, I call it being at peace and it is at such times that I feel God the most. It is at such times ideas, thoughts, answers etc come to me the clearest. Over time, I have found that God was always talking, but I just wasn't listening. (My wife still say's that)

God will continue to open your eyes and heart to understanding according to his will and his time. Take comfort in the fact that he has directed you to Bible-Truths, believe me it is a huge start. I found more coherent answers on my first visit than during the 30 something years of church.

I also believe that our instruction of "come out of her....." (the church) is to remove ourselves from their laws, instruction and fear. We cannot earn our salvation and we ARE NOT responsible for it; God is!

God is! what a wonderful statement. God is everything we could and will ever need. Walk slowly with him and smell the roses and enjoy the life around you.

Perhaps my favorite Scripture is this this one by Paul:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I hope this helps a little.

Love to you and yours,

Darren

[Kat]

Hi judie,

I came to Bibletruths a little before you and I too read and reread it all.
But like you I was very intimidated about reading the Bible on my own. 
But as I have found out, now it has become a wonderful source for inspiration. 
I am familiar with it from pass studies, but now there is a whole new understanding.

Everything is according to His purpose (Eph 1:11), but we are far from puppets.
It is throught life experiences that we are learning right from wrong.
We make choices all the time,  
He does bring about the circumstances that influence and cause us to make the choice. 
But at the time we make a voluntary choice, it was in our heart and mind to do so. 
So if our choice is wrong or sinful, we are held accountable,
and we will have to pay the penalty for sin.
If He is in us and we in Him, we are chastened by God.
Chastise is from the Greek word paideuo and it means to train up a child, educate, or
discipline (by punishment) chasten, (Heb. 12:6).
It is through these experiences that God is teaching us what we should be.

God works with us through prayer, because we must learn to go to Him for everything. 
He wants us to depend on Him. 
Even if it is all being worked out by Him, pray will build a strong bond,
as we will learn to turn to Him constantly.

Mat 7:7  "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Act 17:27  God has done all this, so that we will look for him and reach out and find him. He isn't far from any of us,

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[dogcombat]

Judie,

EVERYONE has (and in some cases are still) gone through this.  I think God has begun the process of humbling you.  Believe me when I say it's a P-R-O-C-E-S-S.  He will start to purge you of the damnable heresies that have enslaved you for much of your journey.  What I reccomend you do is not to try to run from these trials, but to embrace Him in the midst of them.  He is your Heavanly Father, who knows and loves you better than anyone else ever has and ever will.  Be of Good Cheer for now, Cause GOD AIN'T THROUGH WITH YOU YET!! (Count on it.) 

What God is doing to you, is tearing down those idols of the heart that we've all held onto.  They were just illusions of security and were making you miserable.  Sure letting them go hurts, but in the long run, God will show you how much better off you will be without them. 

Ches

[mongoose]

It is so hard to break through. I feel at times that the Bible is beyond my comprehension now. That it is impossible for me to understand the deeper things. It is all so confusing. Yet, I know that all I ever wanted was to know the Truth, but I feel that I am at a standstill beacuse everything I thought was, is really not. I have had my eyes opened to Bible Truths probably since early March of this year.

As others have stated here, this is a long and sometimes hard process.  It takes time to unlearn all the lies the world teaches and replace them with God's truth.  I think we all have to learn a bit at a time otherwise our minds will just melt.  It is easy for me to get impatient and want it all now...but God doesn't seem to give it to us in a lump...I think we weren't designed to handle it this way.  I know it can be hard to understand and still harder to put into practice...but you can cease striving and fighting for the truth.  Rest a bit in Him and wait on Him.  Like YellowStone, I go out alone to be quiet and listen to God.  He seems to use that to soothe me and quiet my mind and it gives me peace and joy.  You'll learn, rest assured, He will finish the work He has begun in you.  It just takes time.

Has any one been at this place? I feel frozen. and I am so utterly frustated and I am so completely confused about this life....

This is normal and we all go through it.  It seems to be part of the process of bringing one closer to Him.  Hurts and is hard to go through...but it does work.  It will get better...and then you'll likely go through another trial...and then it'll get better...

-is everything that happens in my life God's plan? are we puppets? chess pieces?

Yes, everything that happens in your life is God's plan.  I can understand why this may seem like we are "puppets" or "chess pieces"...but that's not really true.  It's hard to come to terms with the concept that we don't have free will.  After all, it seems to be the one thing that people everywhere agree on...and yet it's a lie.  I think of it this way...people create circumstances for their children where they have set everything up and then ask them to make a choice.  That isn't coming across well but perhaps you'll understand.  But, I see parents of young children do this all the time.  Put a simple choice in front of their kid and then use the choice they make as a lesson (yes, that is an excellent choice or well, these are the consequences of that..perhaps the other one would have been better).  That's how I think of God.  Like a parent dealing with a very young child.  He puts choices in front of us (and He does know what we are going to choose) and then He shows us through the circumstances that follow if it was the right one to make.  And we learn from our mistakes and our correct choices.  Does that make any sense?

-does prayer change anything besides my perspective? and does my perspective even matter?

Prayer is part of God's plan for you to learn His will and how He wants you to be.  I'm not sure about your first question...but it can (and often does) change your perspective (or at least it does mine).  And I think your perspective matters.  He is training us to live in harmony and according to His will.  That is all about perspective.  He is teaching us to see and live according to His perspective in a way.

-does God actively intervene- isn't eveything already set in stone?

This is also a tough and very good question.  But it isn't as black and white as either He intervenes or everything is set in stone.  God doesn't have to intervene because that suggests that He was not active at some given time and then returns to being active.  The truth is...everything at every minute is under God's direct and active control.  He knows how things are going to turn out because He planned it all from the beginning.  So, in a sense, everything is set in stone.  But...and this is a really big but...when you come to understand how and why this works, it isn't a reason for despair (as in...well, there's no hope because it all is predestined to turn out a certain way) but a reason for great joy.  That seems to be counter to what our human minds want to think though.  It is set in stone because God has it worked out perfectly, for our benefit.  It would be reason for despair if God didn't love us so much.  He knows exactly how to make this all work out so that all will be perfectly reconcilled to Him.  And so, He gently moves events and us so that we learn what we need to and He can make everything perfect in the end.

One college class I took many years ago described a theology of God as the "watchmaker".
He wound up the world long ago and now it is ticking out its time......and he has no direct dealings with any of it. It is completely finished.....

That is a totally incorrect understanding of God that a lot of people seem to have.  He isn't some impartial being in some place in the sky.  Reminds me of a song..."the true King sits on His heavenly throne, neither away nor above nor afar.  With wisdom and mercy and constant compassion, He lives in the love that lives in our hearts".  God is ever present and ever active.  His love knows no bounds and it beyond all our imaginings.  And He is not only directly involved with the world, if He ever quit, it wouldn't exist.  And one day He will complete His work according to His will and all will be reconcilled and He will be All in All.

I am feeling very hopeless about all things in this life and even in the world to come.
is this a normal process and will there be a breakthrough even though I cannot open the Bible right now?

It is a normal process and it'll likely happen again and again.  It seems especially bad when we first have to give up the illusion of free will...but comes again later.  There is, however, reason for great hope...Christ really is Good News for ALL people.  Keep seeking God...you will find Him for sure.  He has promised that and He always keeps His promises.

sorry to sound so dumb- I have been afraid to ask any questions but I am getting no where on my own- and certainly no one I know really has any insight that is not linked into mainstream Christianity's doctrines. Yes, I do seek God, converse with Him, etc, and feel very consious of Him and desperately need Him at all times......I do want to know.

'

You don't sound dumb and I'm glad you asked your questions.  You say that you are concious of God and are aware that you desperately need Him...that comes from Him.  He is dragging you to Himself.  It's ok to feel unsure and to have doubts and be afraid.  Tell Him how you feel, and ask Him for comfort and understanding.  It'll come.  I have fought and tried to say no and all that...and I can't believe how far He has brought me already.  He has given me great joy and yet I still have lots of doubts and times of fear and despair.  We're all still works in progress and rest assured, you are far from alone.

Much love to you in Christ,

mongoose

[snorky]

Hey, mongoose, you really explained "free will" very well, thanks! And the Holy Spirit be with you.

Judie, God sent you to Bible Truths (just like He sent me using a Google ad when I was researching the funding of the Pharisees). You have read all of Ray's articles but can't get the programming from Christendom out of your head. You aren't the only one. With me I was able to completely get the notion of universal reconciliation because I never believed (really) in hell for eternity; the notion of no rapture because I had already repudiated it in my mind; the notion of not getting caught up in the "world" because I live so far outside the mainstream (I live in the mountains of west Texas...it isn't people per square mile out here, it's square miles per person) is a no brainer; the notion of God's Sovereignty because some of the things that have happened to me in my life are downright miracles (I should be dead now, physically as well as spiritually, having been in mainstream churches, fundamentalist churches, cults and what not) is easy for me to grasp. Other than some of the things I have learned by being on the forum with a fellowship, I still have a hard time grasping "no trinity" (even Ray's article was not much help there). I still have a hard time trying to figure out the Book of Revelation, not to mention prophesies of Daniel, Ezekiel, etc. Maybe that's because God's deal with me is to show me one particular issue discernment at a time.

You may have problems with Bible Study, but that fact that God brought you here counts for something. You are confused the way everyone esle here is or was confused. Christendom has a way of doing that, using "cognitive dissonance" (a method of cults) to tell you one thing is true and then to tell you the opposite is true. Example: On the one hand, God is love (agape, and any other kind you can think of). On the other hand, God will consign 99% of all the people who ever lived to hell for eternity! Another: the Bible says (in Hebrews as well as Genesis and other places) that all mankind is destined to die once on the one hand, and on the other hand (they say) the Bible "says" that 99% of the world's people for all time will die twice and on the other hand some of us will never die, but be "raptured"!

God taught me patience (In fact He forced me to be patient!), because I have never had it before I have come to this site and one or two other spirutually discerning sites and had never been able to properly discern the Bible in just about anything BEFORE He gave me patience. You are (perhaps, God willing) going to have to take this one day at a time, be patient and continue to seek the truth. I have saught the truth actively for close to ten years, trying to figure parts of the Bible out on my own. You CAN'T do it on your own. Like Kat and mongoose and the rest here have said, YOU MUST LET GOD DO IT through you and DEPEND on Him only! It will come--snorky (Deb)

[gmik]

Thanks to all for those wonderful replies! I am wrestling with a few things too, snorky, (deb), so I am really glad you asked!!

To be honest, I consider my bible study to be Ray's articles and tapes & e sword.  Until I get a concordant or Young's I just do not trust reading my ole King James.  This forum is the devotional part of my "bible study".

Truly, this is a new way of living. Totally different from mainstream.  I don't tithe.  I don't witness.  I don't go to church!! Don't sit down and read the bible.  Wow! I wouldn't have believed you a year ago.

Thing is, I am just as busy in my spiritual walk, cuz its all me trying to get the beast off the throne-I know it is God IN ME that will get things done. I want to please HIM.  I want to do the things Paul teaches us are Godly. I listen to Ray or Mikes tapes over and over.  I am on here every day. And yet, to look at me, you would not notice anything.

It used to be important that I prayed at restaurants, or that my neighbors saw me leaving in a dress every Sunday, or that friends knew I was a tither. Not any more. I don't feel the need to impress anyone like that. I know its internal, spiritual, not external.  But every so often, guilt tries to creep in, weariness of understanding Revelations (or not), not having "a church" to fall back on, not telling the world about Jesus etc.

I used to worry that I was not called or chosen, our life is fine and nothing ever happens like what I read about some of you dear ones going thru.  Well 3 or 4 things have happened right in a row with the last being (I hope for awhile)my hussband being sideswiped by an out of control vehicle.  The lady died who hit him, but he is fine. Who the Lord loves He chastises.  So I should want that right??  No, I want a happy, insignificant little life where everything is just fine. So you see Deb, my mind is always racing on and on about this stuff-you are not alone as everyone has said.  Let us bare ourselves one to another that our burdens may be lifted and pray one for another.

Didn't mean to blabber on and on....hope this made sense.  I am at work and need to quit and go home!!

Love to all,
gena

[dogcombat]

So true Bobby,

Things must be uncovered or revealed on the journey, not before it. 

Ches

[hart4god]

well, thank you to alll the faithful friends who put time in on these replies.
You all put in quite a day's work. and I thank you deeply.

I have always had too many questions for most people. It is just part of my nature to want to get beyond the surface of things and see what is underneath it all. and that is why I am so frustrated at not being a "good Bible student" anymore. Questions always get me in trouble.......and so I am afraid to ask any more....because people always got so mad at my questions.....

Like all of you, I did my time in church being miserable and upset most of the time because nothing made sense.
I felt like I knew who God was but I never saw him represented honorably any place corporate. It was all so very weird.
and I agree with you-I just avoided the "hell" issue in the past  because it was so totally incongruous with a God Who So Loved.....

anyway.

I  need a safe place to ask questions- and I did not want people to think I was challenging what is represented on Bible Turths. and I did not want to seem like totally ignorant ( although I am partially ignorant!) of the teachings. I need people like you all who are pretty patient with us "younger" brothers and sisters.

I have carefully read the encouragement you all brought to this topic. I so appreciate the thought and effort. I also am comforted by your own paths and journeys and maybe I am a little less stressed about where I am at and where I will end up.

I have always had a special connection to God, a communion of sorts, but at times I have felt that w/o study and THE WORD, relationship and fellowship with Him was illegitimate. invalid. I could never conform and fit in, even then. I have wanted only to follow Him but I never could do it "their" way. and now I do doubt  myself very much- that I am still following.

we (my husband and family -4 kids-all over 16) have been out of the corporate Christian scene for over a year now. and we are happy for once and not dreading Sundays and Wednesdays.....we feel that our lives are more honest and real and we are able to care more deeply about more things and touch more lives than we ever did in the past 25 years.

Ok, I will relax and Let God teach me as He desires. in this season it is without a word. and I know that I am being converted and won over to Him.
thank you all.

lovingly,
judie h.

[justifyothers]

Hi Judie --
I experience the world you are in often.  However, I also experience leaving it to find a new fresh word from God.  I am fortunate enough to have much free time that I devote to God/quiet & reflective time. I appreciate this and know everyone is not so fortunate. This time really enables me to listen for Him.  But sometimes, like you, I get in a funk -- too much info/not enough info --whatever. And my first reaction is frustration and a desire to throw my bible out the window! Can you imagine ??  BUT HE ALWAYS COMES THROUGH!! 
I know you'll get there soon -- trust Him and listen for Him.  When you get back in your bible, stay in the words of Jesus.  Things seem clearer for me sometimes to do that.
Will pray for His will for you.
Love,  K

[DaleRay]

This is all really good stuff.  I say "ditto" to all and keep on keepin' on...

love,

Dale Ray

[mongoose]

Judie,
  I'm glad you came here to fellowship.  For me, I go through times where I'll just sit and read and read and read in the bible, and times when I don't even open it up for weeks or months.  I think God teaches us in different ways along the path, sometimes through the bible, and sometimes directly to our hearts.  Seems like that these times when you aren't reading you might be anxious about it.  It's all part of His plan for you.  I pray you will find peace with this.  He loves you more than you can know.

mongoose

[chuckusa]

Hi Judie,

I want to give you another witness to whats already been said. This is the perfect place to ask your questions and to explore the truth. Don't feel for one second that you should be shy about posting. When it feels right, just have a go at it.

If you've read any of my posts you can clearly see you have nothing to worry about. Unlike me, what YOU say makes sense... As long as I'm around, NO ONE need be embarrassed about anything they post. I may have cornered the market on that. So to all the new bee's... don't be shy about posting, because as you can see...you can't possibly do worse than me!

But it's OK, I know I'm loved anyway. I know you are too Judie.

God Bless,
Chuck

[stego]

Hi Judie,
    I came to bible-truths just about a month ago and started posting only recently.  I must also say that i agree completely with what YellowStone says when he says

First off, know deep in your hear that God is with you and for you always. Feel him, listen to him, know him and trust him. Believe it or not, this was far easier than I ever imagined. One does not need scripture to come to God. One does not need to attend the church of man, nor fervently follow their traditions. Your walk with God is your walk; not mine or any others. Just you and God.

We do not learn of God by the bible alone, but by every experience we have in life.  My advice to help you feel better now is to Cut yourself some slack, because God doesn't expect us to be perfect, so we shouldn't either!

The free-will stuff can be confusing at first, at least it was for me, so don't expect to get it overnight, be patient with yourself.

Here's my thoughts:

You probably know that God made us and everything for his good purpose.  And you probably know that no matter what we do, we can't help but fulfill that purpose, because he made us such that we can't help but fulfill his purpose (our will is determined by God).  So it doesn't matter what we do... but wait!  It DOES matter what we choose to do, because if we choose to do wrong, which is not God's will, we will NOT be happy/content/joyful, and you do want to be happy/content/joyful don't you?  Of course!  That is why we should aspire to do right, God's perfect will, because it is doing his perfect will that will maximize our happiness/joyfullness!  The more righteousness we learn, the happier and more joyful we become.  How do we know what is right?  It's God's said will AND as it is written,
"You will know of the tree by it's fruit".  Life is the process of learning righteousness, the process of learning how to be happy.  God says that it is his plan that eventually ALL of us will know righteousness, which means eventually ALL of us will be happy/joyfull all the time!  God's gift to us is life/happiness/joyfullness, and this is his Glory!  Mankind is the glory of God!  Glory to God! 

I wish you the best Judie, God Bless,

Sean