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Deborah-Leigh:
Hi again Gena

I should have written rather....Hell is a pagan idea used to empower RELIGION to LEAD MANKIND  into deeper delusion..fear...bondage and confusion....!

That would have been more correct!.... :D

And in the words of 3 John..."Peace be to you!"

Arcturus :)

mongoose:
Gena,
  I used to wonder about that a lot too.  If God is so good and there is no hell, why does He make some people go through such bad stuff here?  And once I would've included myself in that...although dont' get me wrong, certainally not like the holocaust and I know that there are a lot of people who have had things a lot worse!  Then I realized I was grateful for all the things I've felt, for every bit of pain and suffering...I was thinking of what an uncompassionate, braty, unloving, selfish little beast I would be if I didn't know what it was to hurt and fear and be lonely. 

Suffering in this life is nothing compared to what they teach of suffering for all eternity.  Everything that happens in this life is temporary (including death) and somehow necessary to teach us to love and know God.  That said, some things are harder than others to understand...but it is all for our education and eventually even these things will make perfect sense to us.  At the very least, we learn what people will do to each other if given the chance.  That alone shows us how carnal and helpless we are to do good...and how much we need God.  We develop strength and compassion and character and learn that we need God for everything when we suffer...and when we see others suffer.  Ray said somewhere I think something along the lines of what virtues are there that aren't developed through hardship and trials?  I can't think of any.

Hope this helps.  It's hard to watch the news or be in the world and see these things happening isn't it?  My heart breaks every time...and yet a broken heart is God's greatest way of teaching and leading us.  And He always heals it again and again.  In our weakness, He is strong.

Love in Christ,

mongoose

angie:
Hi Mongoose,

The words you quoted were from  'desiderata'. I had an A1 sized poster of it on my lounge wall for about 14 years before ever beginning to consciously seek God. Everyone who came into my house read it, and they all thought the world would be a much nicer place if people really would think and act that way. It taught me that some of even the most vindictive and vengeful of people would prefer another way of living. I think that God has indeed, written his name on all our hearts, even thought we are not all aware of it, and even on those whose hearts refute God exists. It brought to mind the words,

Rom: 22 'For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

Desiderata may not be scriptural words but some of the the ideas behind them, I think, are a step in the right direction. I have reproduced it here for anyone who hasn't read it.

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly and listen to others,
even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is.
Many persons strive for high ideals
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself.
Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disappointment
it is as perennial as the grass.
Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars.
You have a right to be here.
And whether it is clear to you or not,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive him to be,
and whatever your labours and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham and drudgery and broken dreams
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
Angie
x

mongoose:
Yep Angie.  I wasn't sure if it was ok to post it.  You're a lot braver than I am.  I have that, and a poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson hung up both at work and at home.  Also not a scriptural one but one that I think has a lot of good points nonetheless.  It helps me keep a good perspective on things.

mongoose

joyful1:
Mongoose and Angie--thanks for posting those words! Since begining our study of Ray's material...we frequently use the phrase; "no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should," whenever anything weird or unusual happens around our house! LOL!  It brings back great memories of my teen years--when the struggle for finding the truth had only begun! thanks again! ;D joyful1

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