> General Discussions
those who have never heard
Joey Porter:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on October 19, 2006, 06:02:15 PM ---Guys and Gals,
There has been some very interesting discourse in this thread. But I think perhaps, by whose will is being followed is forgotten.
Case in point, only God knows the true motive in ones heart (he put it there or allowed Satan) To this point, I have known some wonderful missionaries during my travels and although I might not agree with 100% of their doctrine, I cannot fault many at all in the way they extended their lives and put up with all kinds of hardship trying to preach the Word of God as they understand it, all the while caring for God's children who were often malnourished, un educated and often sickly.
Do you really think that it is Christ in us condemning such as these (looking at no-one!!) :D
Or would he show some compassion? Surely there is no comparison between missionaries and the likes of the TV evangelists. :)
--- End quote ---
That's an issue that really confuses me, as well. I think about these missionaries and I know that there is no way I could ever (at least at this time) give up my entire way of living to live in a third world country and teach others. What a great work! Part of me couldn't imagine people like that being judged harshly. But then...
I also think about when Jesus said woe to them who travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when converted, they become twice as much a son of "hell" as they themselves. I also think about those who will do many wonderful works in His name only to be told "I never knew you."
It's also important to remember that there are missionaries in all religions - mormonism, JW, Islam, you name it. These are all people who are making sacrifices to share their faith with others. Surely all of these missionaries will not receive praise on judgment day.
I really believe that if someone is preaching untruths as though they are truths, they will have no reward for that, nor any place in the kingdom. I don't know how harsh the judgment will be, but I can't see Him praising and commending someone who, even though the motive may not have been selfish, taught a blasphemous gospel to masses of people.
I could be wrong, though.
Joey Porter:
I also want to add something to my previous post. I think a lot may hinge upon how much truth had been revealed to the missionary person. For example, if a person had been shown the erroneous teachings of mainstream Christianity and yet would have no part of it, and went on to be a missionary and continued to teach error, I think that person will be judged more severely than a missionary who had never been expoosed to the untruths being taught. But I don't believe either will have a reward.
hillsbororiver:
Joey,
I have to agree with the points you made here, what knowledge were these missionaries exposed to, what did they reject, if anything? Did they make a concious decision to put away any knowledge or possibility that Universal Salvation is real because "hell" is such an effective way of getting people to "the cross?"
What was their real (heartfelt) motivation? Was it to rack up huge numbers of "converts" like a shooting guard in a basketball game? Was it (missionary work) a requirement of their church to remain in good standing?
Or were they acting on the limited understanding the Lord has given them but still having a strong love for Him and humanity?
In most cases only the Lord and the missionary will know the answer to these questions.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
YellowStone:
Joey wrote:
I really believe that if someone is preaching untruths as though they are truths, they will have no reward for that, nor any place in the kingdom. I don't know how harsh the judgment will be, but I can't see Him praising and commending someone who, even though the motive may not have been selfish, taught a blasphemous gospel to masses of people.
This is of course the million$ question. How does one know if the truth's they hold so dear are indeed true or false. As hard as I might and as much as I prayed for wisdom and understanding, I never knew, until God openned my eyes.
How can one hear the truth and turn away from it, if not by God. Is there anyone here strong enough to walk away from God, if he does not will it? This is important, becasue God is in control and everything is happening according to his will, so who are we to say that "they will have no reward for that, nor any place in the kingdom." because, they are doing and saying all that God has allowed them to see.
We should not look down on them, rather we should weep for them. How sad is it that those who genuinely believe that they have the truth, do not.
But this is not the end of it, what of: (third use) :)
Rom 1:20
*
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Not a single person alive is without excuse. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead. Though they are being preached to, it does not mean nor imply that all believe in their hearts that the words are true. Can anyone say that every preacher / missionary believes every piece of doctrine without question?
Not one of us is any greater than any other by our own work. We are who we are just like everyone else, by the grace of God.
Truth is at war with untruth, ie Christ is at war with the ruler of this world, Satan. Christ will know well the motives of a persons heart. He will know that any untruth will be of Satan. Is there anyone who can resist Satan if not by Christ or God? Of course not! :)
Christ will judge everyone according to his own criteria. Does it not worry you, that Christ may look at "us" with disdain, because we didn't even try to correct the missionaries or help teach the masses the truth? Are we not worse then them?
Relax Joey, :) All is going to God's plan and all will be revealed in time.
Thanks for a very thought provoking post.
Darren
YellowStone:
Joey wrote:
I also want to add something to my previous post. I think a lot may hinge upon how much truth had been revealed to the missionary person. For example, if a person had been shown the erroneous teachings of mainstream Christianity and yet would have no part of it, and went on to be a missionary and continued to teach error, I think that person will be judged more severely than a missionary who had never been expoosed to the untruths being taught. But I don't believe either will have a reward.
I'm not picking on you Joey :) but I am commenting on a couple of points for my benefit.
1. For example, if a person had been shown the erroneous teachings of mainstream Christianity and yet would have no part of it, and went on to be a missionary and continued to teach error.
This kind of like taking one to the forest, but they could not see it for the trees. Whose fault is that? They didn't know what they were looking for. Just because one finds the truth, but does not see it as such; is this because of their willful ignorance or because of the will of God? Can anyone ignore God, if he does not want to be? :)
2. I think that person will be judged more severely than a missionary who had never been expoosed to the untruths being taught.
This is an interesting point. Should they be judged harsher than you or I, just because God did not give them eyes to see? Once again, only God knows the motives of the heart.
3. But I don't believe either will have a reward.
Once again, this comes back to whether "either" are living outside the will of God. If they are, then we are in control of our own destiny and God takes what he gets; or each are judged according to their hearts.
Lastly, do you think they are preaching "hell-fire" against the will of God? If not, then surely this a mute point, for why would anyone be judged harsher for living according to the light provided?
Food for thought. Joe, I would love to hear your take on this, because if I am wrong, I need to know. :)
Love and Godspeed to you all,
Darren
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