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Author Topic: God, Free Will  (Read 3188 times)

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Craig

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God, Free Will
« on: October 15, 2006, 11:25:39 AM »

Dear Micahel:
I will not debate you on your questions, however, I will make a few COMMENTS in your email, and that will be the end of it...........

 
Dear Mr. Smith,

I've been pondering your views on "Free Will" and it seems that we humans cannot make choices without "cause and effect (consequence)".

But, is not God also in the same boat??


COMMENT:  God is not in a "boat."  And, No, God is not on the same level as humans either.


Can even God have "Free Will" and make decisions (choices) without "cause and effect (consequence)"??


COMMENT:  The term "free will" means a will without a cause. The term "free choice" means a choice that has no cause.  Now then, Does man have a will that has no cause behind it? NO.  Does God make choices that have no cause?  We need to be very careful when we try to use words applied to humanity as though they equally apply to God. Choice can mean to pick from a number of possibilities.  In this usage, God does not make choices. God knows and always persues the ONLY WISE COURSE or action.  So if we mean by choice, Selecting that which we prefer, then God does in that sense make a choice, since He always does what He prefers to do.  But these things do not come from nowhere, nor do they come from an outside or higher power. There is no outside higher power than God.  But The Scriptures do tell us by what method or means God does what He does:

"In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the PURPOSE of Him [God] Who works all things after THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL"  (Eph. 1:11).

There is your answers.



If the answer "Yes", then why does this answer not also apply to people, since we are in the image of God?


COMMENT:  We are NOT as yet "in the image of God." (Rom. 8:29).


If the answer is "No"", then God is not sovereign ---  since even He does not have "Free Will" and is subject to "Cause and Effect"


COMMENT:  This statement is nonsense.

God be with you,

Ray



What sayest thou?

Please Show real Example(s) for your answer.

Peace,
Michael


« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 11:21:49 AM by Kat »
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Craig

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Re: God, Free Will
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2006, 11:20:46 AM »

     One Last Chance....

    below you wrote:
    My paper on Free Will is about 120 pages long. It is not possible for me to EXPLAIN that 120 pages in an email. You are making many assertions that I have never made in my paper. You suggest that things are "just the way God wants them," as if what is happening is really a good thing at the present time. It is not. It is a means to an end. God does not make or FORCE people to sin. Yes, they sin because God made them to weak to resist sin, but God does not FORCE men to rape little girls. You really need to re-read my paper more carefully.  Just because man does not have a free will does not mean that God m akes men sin. We need to be careful in the way we express things. And always remember, these teachings are not mine. I did not make them up. This is not L. Ray Smith's doctrine. I got it all from the Bible and I back every ounce of it up with the Scriptures .


    This is not L. Ray Smith's doctrine, ( Hummmmmmm???)
    "I got it all from the Bible", ( GOT IT ALL From THE BIBLE did you? )
    and
    "I back every ounce of it up with the Scriptures "   ( You DO do you ?? )

    O.K.

    Where is Your definition of "Free Will" defined by God in the Bible??

    Where does th Bible say YOUR definition of "Free Will" is THE ONE and only definition of free will that God uses and accepts??

    Where did Jesus, Peter, Paul or any of the Bible Greats condone YOUR definition? Did they condone ONLY YOUR definition?

    Any numb-skull knows that we do not have absolute free will under YOUR definition --- that's a given.

    But, Does that mean that we NEVER have Free Will under any definition, anytime- anywhere? Methinks NOT!

    I'll UNLOCK from your definition of Free Will  (since I am not restricted by God or the Bible to cow-tow to it) and say this...

    MY Definition of "Free Will" (There could be other valid ones) ...

    "Free Will" --- The ability to choose between alternatives without Coercion.

    Do people have "Free Will" under "MY" definition ---  inside of the restrictions that God has placed on us? Absolutely.

    Case Closed.

    Cheers,
    Michael
    PS --- God has unlimited "Free Will" ----  Humans have  "Free Will" inside the restrictions God has placed on us in this life


    Michael:

    Are you now beginning to see why I initially said that I would not "debate" you on this subject?  That I would give my answer to you, but I would not endlessly debate you on it?  You just can't give it up even though you are totally wrong. You just keep on the email after email after email. You foolishly ask:

     " Where is Your definition of "Free Will" defined by God in the Bible??"

    Michael, where is "The Tooth Fairy" defined by God in the Bible?  I spend 120 pages proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is not such thing as "free will," and there certainly is not such words or concept as "free will" in the Bible, and you now ask me where "free will" is defined in the Bible?  Are you crazy? THERE IS NO FREE WILL IN THE BIBLE or anywhere else in the universe. God does not "define" things that do not exist.

    And now you outdue yourself with "restricted" free will. Michael, I covered this stupid theological concept of "limited" or "restricted" free will six years ago in my first paper on Bible-Truths where I critiqued a sermon by Dr. James Kennedy on hell and the Africans. Here, I copied it for you:

    "Even theologians admit that their free will theory is limited. So they have invented "limited free will." They use analogies like a cow on a tether or a fly in a jar or a lion in a cage. Their freedom is limited to the confines of their restraints, but within those confines they are nonetheless, free. Is this true? Is there such a thing as "limited" free will? Or is this just more theological double-talk?

    Only in religion do simple words lose their meaning. Let's look at Webster's Twentieth Century Dictionary: Page 963, "limited, a. Restricted." Page 682, "free, a. without restriction." So here then is what theologians want us to believe: Man has a will that is restricted without restriction.

    Man does not have "limited" free will. Otherwise God would have "limited" sovereignty. Man has no free will and God has total sovereignty. Theologians try to make high what is low and try to bring low what is high. These teachings do not glorify God.

    Somebody has been taking William James too seriously. God is not sitting around waiting to see what man will do through his "free will" so that He can then figure out what to do about it. Rather than conclude from the "wisdom of the world" that man has a free will (and thus deny the sovereignty of God), we must conclude that since God is sovereign, man can not and does not have a free will. This is logical, sensible, and lawful. It is Scriptural and it glorifies God."

    And so it appears that you too, Michael, believe in "restricted" "un-restricted" will.  You believe that the will is "free" yet "restricted."  Free means "UN-restricted," and un-restricted CONTRADICTS "restricted."  Think it over for a few days and maybe the light will come on.

    Why is it that: "NO MAN CAN come to me unless the Father draw him...." (John 6:44), if he has a "free will" to come to Jesus?

    Why is it that: "For it is GOD which works in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13), if man has a "free will" to will and to do on his own power?

    Give it up, Michael. You are way out of your league.

    Ray

    PS   The only reason that I have continued this charade, MIchael, is to show our readers just how far the carnal mind will go in trying to defend the indefensible; to promote the evil teachings of Christendom; to contradict the plain Word of God on this subject.


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