> General Discussions
Christmas
jennie:
This isn't spiritual at all but I think Christmas is a lot of fun. All the pretty lights and all.... I love it. We always have what we call a free market at our church for parents and grandparents to come get their children gifts. Most of them aren't able to go to town and get gifts. We all buy or make things for children and our teen-agers wrap the gifts up for the families. We give them a box of groceries too so they can have a good Christmas dinner. Some of us work at the church on Christmas and Thanksgiving too and cook for our community helpers like the police and firemen that have to work all the time. We fix for the folks who work at the little convenience stores in our area. We cook their dinner and deliver to them. It sounds like a lot of work but it's fun. The sad thing I guess is that there are some big churches in our area that have a whole lot of money but they won't turn loose of a penny to help others. They even send people to us to help instead of helping them themselves.We don't mind though. God always provides even though we are a group of (money) poor people.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Extol on October 17, 2006, 04:42:42 PM ---It's ridiculous to say that Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas. What does it matter if Romans worshipped the sun on this day? Does that mean WE are worshipping the sun by getting together with family and giving gifts to each other and remembering Christ's birth? Of course not. Is it wrong to thank God more than usual for the Resurrection around Easter time, just because Easter is "pagan"? Of course not. How absurd.
--- End quote ---
Hi Extol,
Apparently Paul did not think it ridiculous and absurd to refrain from getting caught up in observing special days or times, especially when the origins of these days are well known. We are in the Sabbath resting in Him 24/7 not on Saturday or Sunday or Christmas or Easter. Every minute of every day is His, and ours to honor, obey and glorify Him.
We shouldn't ruin our family's holiday season by being rigid and unyielding in how we interact with them and others on these days, but to add any special significance to them, like we are honoring God even more or remembering Him especially on these days is not what where we should be at this point in our journey.
Here is an example in Galations 4 of what I am speaking of, I will use a few different translations for clarity;[/color]
Galatians 4 (New International Version)
Paul's Concern for the Galatians
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you
Galatians 4 (The Message)
8-11Earlier, before you knew God personally, you were enslaved to so-called gods that had nothing of the divine about them. But now that you know the real God—or rather since God knows you—how can you possibly subject yourselves again to those paper tigers? For that is exactly what you do when you are intimidated into scrupulously observing all the traditions, taboos, and superstitions associated with special days and seasons and years. I am afraid that all my hard work among you has gone up in a puff of smoke!
Galatians 4 (Amplified Bible)
8 But at that previous time, when you had not come to be acquainted with and understand and know the true God, you [Gentiles] were in bondage to gods who by their very nature could not be gods at all [gods that really did not exist].
9 Now, however, that you have come to be acquainted with and understand and know [the true] God, or rather to be understood and known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly and worthless elementary things [[d]of all religions before Christ came], whose slaves you once more want to become?
10 You observe [particular] days and months and seasons and years!
11 I am alarmed [about you], lest I have labored among and over you to no purpose and in vain.
If you have any scriptural witnesses that proclaim we are to glorify Christ more on one day rather than another I will submit to that authority.
But please don't get the idea that we should be scrooges and bah, humbug away the days our loved ones hold important, we should always be a light and not a burden to those around us. I will take the opportunity again this year to witness to my family and friends how every minute of every day belongs to Him, as I do the other days of the year.
I hope you take this in the spirit it is given, it was not my intention to offend anyone,
Joe
Kat:
--- Quote ---But please don't get the idea that we should be scrooges and bah, humbug away the days our loved ones hold important, we should always be a light and not a burden to those around us. I will take the opportunity again this year to witness to my family and friends how every minute of every day belongs to Him, as I do the other days of the year.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you totally on this Joe.
I understand it is between every individual person and God, to do what He leads them do.
I am not judging anyone as to this or any other thing, why would I want to anyway.
But I do have a different prospective, on this subject.
It is not the favorite view on this, but some may want to consider both sides.
The very popularity of christmas should cause us to question it. Anyone and everyone celebrate christmas, outright pagans, nominal Christians, and even Buddhists and Hindus. If in reality, Dec. 25th were a date of the birth of Jesus, there is no doubt that the world would have nothing to do with it.
Gal 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. v.9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? v.10 You observe days and months and seasons and years!
Celebrating Christ's birth is a form of worship. But since christmas is all about false beliefs, those who celebrate it are not worshiping in "spirit and truth" (John 4:24).]
Some feel that because of the long passage of time from their pagan inception to the present, the connection to paganism has been diminished over time. While it may be true that most symbols have lost their original meaning and significance, it is strange and ironic that Christendom seeks to commemorate Christ's birth with the faded symbols of paganism.
And even though some people may be ignorant about the source of these things, surely God is not. Can such things please Him?
Can we add mass to the name of our Christ and not blaspheme the name of Christ,
Pro 30:6 "Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."
By taking a pagan celebration, "Christianizing" it, and calling it a celebration of the birth of Christ, is most certainly taking the Lord's name in vain.
A question- will Christ allow christmas to be celebrated when He rules the nations, during His reign on earth?
So there you have it, a unpopular point of view to say the least.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
mongoose:
As Joe said, it doesn't really matter if the Romans worshiped the sun on any particular day. As for thanking God more than usual for the Resurrection around Easter time, well, I would guess that depends on why and where you are. I haven't found any references in the NT that Peter or Paul remember the resurrection more or less on any day. Only that they kept it in front of them always. So, is the day when some celebrate Christmas or Easter a day to worship God and remember the birth, life, and resurrection of Christ...to me, yes...those are days on which to do them....as is every other day. If we have entered into His sabbath rest, then every day, every minute is the Sabbath. We have been taught that all is of and for God...so how can any one day be more special than any other? We can work and go about our lives living every day as a Sabbath to rest in the Lord and serve Him because we know that each day and every single minute of each day is a gift from God and every bit of work we do, whether in our jobs or in our lives away from our occupations, we do for God. It's all His.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. Ephesians 6:5-8
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Colossians 3: 22-24
As for the pagan origins, undeniably there. And I do go to my family's for the holiday season because it would hurt them a lot if I didn't. But also don't get into the whole "we must celebrate Christ's birth" discussions either. I just say that Christ wasn't born then...and that has been unpopular enough to get some people really angry. What I've always thought is that if God had wanted us to celebrate these days, then He would've been specific about when they are. We don't even know the date of Jesus' birth..and I think that's on purpose. We can't fix special importance to a particular day if we don't know which day it is, right? Hope this helps.
mongoose
Brett:
--- Quote from: Rene on October 17, 2006, 02:10:05 PM ---Hi Iris,
A year ago I asked Ray about celebrating Christmas. I was new to Bible-Truths.com and was asking Ray all sorts of questions because I was desperately seeking "truth" and only wanted to associate with those who were worshipping God in truth. I am retyping Ray's answer to my question:
"As for Christmas, well, it's the feast of the Roman Saturnalia, and as such is not something that Believers should be actively participating in. However, if a wife or husband insists on keeping Christmas for the kids sake, I certainly wouldn't break up a marriage over it. Paul taught us that: "Unto the pure all things are pure." Let the world do their thing, and remember that we are not to be "OF this world" even though we must still live IN it."
His answer satisfied me because I had done my own research on the origins of Christmas, as well as Easter, i.e. pagan. I no longer decorate or participate in the gift giving aspects of Christmas. I'm blessed that my family respects my decision, this includes my only child who is now 23 years old. This does not mean that there has not been some subtle persecution surrounding this issue. I still stiffen when I have to defend my beliefs.
I do not rule out spending time with famiily and love ones during this time of year because that is when most people have time off from their jobs. Whatever we do, we must do it through the spirit of love.
I hope this is of some help to you.
May the Lord's peace and grace be with you,
Rene'
--- End quote ---
Hey Rene
Thanks for the share for us of Ray's response. I have been wondering for so long. My wife and my two kids are still celebrate of Christmas. I tried to explain them about pagan's things but I cannot control over them. I let God do all His work. If He reveal Himself to my wife and my kids, changed can happen.
Brett
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