> General Discussions
elect
TRUTHSEEKER:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on October 30, 2006, 01:47:48 PM ---Hi Truthseeker,
Here are some verses that would strongly suggest that a knowledge and a reverence of and for Jesus is a prerequisite for being saved, in this life or the next.
I would not limit the Lord in saving whomever He willed but if He did it outside any biblical knowledge He would still reveal Himself to the sinner being saved, without His Spirit we are dying flesh, not a living spirit.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at naught of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth and things under the earth;
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
--- End quote ---
I agree that a knowledge and a reverence of and for Jesus is a prerequisite for being saved, in this life or the next. But I was referring to the "Elect". To be counted as one of the elect, chosen by God, before the creation of the earth is a different matter. Believing in Jesus doesn't automatically make one an elect of God. God has chosen those who will be a part of this elite group of people before even saving them. Their position is as sure as our salvation. Being an elect is a special calling only reserved for a few. I also agree that God would still reveal Himself to the sinner being saved without biblical knowledge. It truly is God's spirit that brings men and women to Christ. Be blessed.
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: TRUTHSEEKER on October 30, 2006, 02:35:17 PM --- Believing in Jesus doesn't automatically make one an elect of God. God has chosen those who will be a part of this elite group of people before even saving them. Their position is as sure as our salvation. Being an elect is a special calling only reserved for a few.
--- End quote ---
Hello Truthseeker,
I could not agree more.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
gmik:
I also thought that you had to come out of Babylon, come out from AMONG them. Is that just the elect or the called. That would mean large ethnic groups would not be judging & ruling w/ Jesus since many millions over the centuries haven't even heard of Jesus.
Kat:
Hi Gena,
You are right that large groups are not judged now, and will not be in the first resurrection.
The called all come out of Christiandom,
so all others will be in the second resurrection.
This is an excerpt from LoF #8.
This will help your understanding of the called and the chosen.
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------------------
THE "CALLED" AND THE "NOT CALLED"
"For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many [some, but not many] wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
But God has chosen the foolish things [many translations do not insert the word "things" in these verses] of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And the base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: that no flesh should glory in His presence" (I Cor. 1:26-29).
So we see that God calls MOSTLY those who are: weak, base, despised, nothings! Are we to believe that God is going to build a SPIRITUAL ARMY of Sons and Daughters by which He will conquer and SAVE THE WORLD?
Hard to believe, isn’t it? I think we can all agree that there is a great deal of work to be done with and to these "nothings of the world" whom God is calling to such a formidable, once-in-an-eternity task!
But of the "many called," we are told, "few are chosen" (Matt. 20:16). Why is that? God has intended it to be such. We are given the parable of the "sower of seed" where much of the seed fell by the side of the tilled soil, and the birds ate it; some had no depth and withered in the sun; still more fell among thorns and were chocked, but some fell upon good soil and produced much fruit. Many seed are sown, but few seed produce good fruit. "Seed" we see everywhere in the Church; "fruit" of God’s spirit is more rare. These few have the added designation of:
"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14).
These are the "very elect" who cannot be deceived any longer by the Great Whore, "Mystery Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots, and the Abominations of the earth."
One more important verse regarding our calling, that I will cite out of the Concordant Literal New Testament because I believe they translate the Greek aorist tense properly, whereas the King James uses the past tense:
"Now we are aware that GOD [it is unfortunate that the King James leaves out "God" even though it is in the manuscripts. Most translations do put "God" in this opening phrase. Things don’t just ‘work’ together without GOD doing the ‘working’] is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are [being] called according to the purpose that, whom He foreknew, He designates beforehand, also, to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be Firstborn among many brethren. Now whom He designates beforehand, these He calls [not ‘called’ as all are NOT YET called, it is the aorist tense] also, and whom He calls, these He justifies, also; now whom He justifies, these He glorifies also" (Rom. 8:28:30).
Now, pay attention: All which God foreknew, He then designates beforehand (He hand-picks them, if you will). And therefore, since He has already designated them beforehand, when they are born in whatever generation God designates; He then calls them. Now it is true that God calls MANY OTHERS whom He has NOT designated to be "conformed to the image of His Son" AT THE TIME that each generation appears in history.
There are many more "called" in each generation than are actually, "chosen" to be conformed to the image of His Son at that time.
All that are not chosen will be in the second resurrection/white throne judgment/lake of fire. These will go the "broad way into destruction" from which they will await judgment at the great white throne. But, those which God foreknows and designates beforehand, He definitely does call, but these designated ones GO ON to be JUSTIFIED AND GLORIFIED. They are not just the "called," but the "called AND CHOSEN" which will go on to glorification in service with Christ, as the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, in the Kingdom of God, to bring the rest of heaven and earth to SALVATION!
When Jesus says that,
"Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord… Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity" (Matt. 722-23),
He is not speaking of a minority but a majority. The "many" NEVER means the minority!
We will see it conclusively proved from God’s Word that the majority in the Church today are going the "broad way," and not the "straight and narrow way." And I am not just preaching to the choir when I say that only a "FEW" will be in the first resurrection and rule and reign with Christ, I am speaking to all the church and to myself as well. I know these aren’t the "soft" words that tickle people’s ears, but what I am telling you is a "hard saying" of the Scripture that is absolutely true. Jesus Christ Himself said that "THE MANY" must "DEPART from Me." Jesus doesn’t "know" the many, in a spiritual relationship, because they are too carnal to be spiritual.
ARE YOU "CALLED AND CHOSEN" OR JUST "CALLED?"
Let me first state that there is an order in the process of being called to Sonship. First you are called, and then you are chosen from among the called. And we have already learned that the "chosen" are also the "few." Quite frankly, not unlike a casting call. Many are called to come to the casting rehearsal, but only a relative few will be chosen for the actual performance. Which are you? I will not be your personal judge, however, as we progress in this series, you will be confronted with dozens of Scriptures by which you can JUDGE YOURSELF by the aid of God’s Spirit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
stego:
Thanks you guys for the good replies. Joe, i agree with you so much here:
--- Quote ---There is no doubt that the Lord can and does choose whomever He pleases, we can never be absolutely sure of another person's walk with Him or how He leads them to Himself, it is a One on one experience for any and all of His own.
--- End quote ---
Amen! lol, thanks.
Sean
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