Hello Joe
You ask...
Brothers and Sisters I can feel real empathy for and relate to where Job is coming from here. How about you?What is revealing here is this......your post in Testimonies....quote...... Re: God's will and your life
« Reply #16 on: Today at 07:39:56 PM »
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Hi Truthseeker,
................. I have been there, but in my case it was self inflicted, He turned it into an incredible blessing. A few years back (when I was in my early 40's) I made a series of boneheaded decisions that cost me my job as Southeastern U.S. Regional Sales Managmulti faceted scourging, including courts, jail, probation officers, loss of a drivers license, etc.
Anyway, little did I realize nor would I have believed it at the time but the Lord was leading me right there and through all these things for an earthly situation much improved over my former "Prestige Job" and ultimately a spiritual situation that I had absolutely no idea even existed.
As I had done in previous times of self induced misery I took out my bible, dusted it off and began reading, looking for comfort and hope, I remember Job and the story of Joseph as being particularly relevant to my situation although to me it seemed that these two were REALLY being led of the Lord to a greater understanding and prominance whereas I believed it was my own "free will" which got me to this desperate place. Most everything I read went miles over my (carnal) head. .................................Pain is not some accademic exercise. It is a real life experience and it can not be understood by reading about someone else's pain. It can only resonate if you have suffered.
Thinking about this more has led me to see that there are different forms of pain. As we are heading into a storm, fear can take hold on us and torment us like shown by the strain that the Disciples felt in the boat as Jesus slept. Another form of pain is expressed in Ecclesiastes days of seeming futility and emptyness and what about Rev 2 : 10....the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried, and you shall have tribulation ten days, be loyally faithful unto death, even if you must die for it and I will give you the crown of life.
For me a broken heart is wider and can hold more because it is brused open and flogged soft." Harden not your hearts....."....but is it us who does this work of faithfullness....are we capable of even desiring it? Do we seek or desire to be bound for the furnace that often is set seven times hotter.....it is frightening and only God can guide us through the experience of being trained into brokeness and humbled out and away from our dependence on self. This yields the fruit of His compassion and understanding and absence of arrogance and self will and this handiwork is a work only of God for we are too poor to perform it and too weak to desire it.
You write...
Reading this gives me more empathy for unbelievers and those who really have not been blessed with a relationship with Him as yet,......This is soul pain....
The different kinds of pain.........being on the boat in a storm and Jesus is asleep,..... going into the fire hands bound like Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, or..... what about King Nebuchadnezzar who lost his kingdom and went mad and insane and experienced having a heart of a beast?...or Jonah being thrown overboard!....I think if we were to list the different kinds of agony listed in the Scriptures I do believe it will reveal that every conceavable kind of pain was for- known by God and shows up in the many testimonies of the characters in the Scriptures. But how can this help us if we do not see Gods plan and know His will? Without seeing Gods plan and will I believe pain is exterior to us and remote and only touches us if it hurts us directly. This does not help at all. This creates monstors like Hitler. Remove knowing or understanding Gods will and plans and ways and Spirit and you have a beast. But God is wise. Very wise.
Jesus said, be anxious for nothing....not because we can achieve being anxious for nothing by ourselves but because this is the state of soul promised to us as a consequence of His work within us. The Free Will articles by Ray, shine on this truth. That there is no free will opens the gate to understanding that by consequence of revelation....God inspired and God given...... sets free from worry and anxiety and pain. This Godly freedom does not lead to frivolity, or triviality over suffering and pain, but rather to endurance, understanding and compassion. These things are not to be easily grasped at, but are brought into our souls through the handy work of God Himself.
What a hopeless helpless situation to not be untied, mercifully released or delivered out of agony and pain. Christ's ressurection is the sequal to His death and pain and suffering and this is for us too who are called to be raised up in His image. This process is not easy to experience and much less easy to comprehend for those who do not hold to the fact that God is Sovereign.
What a trial to be, at God's hand, to be turned into a beast or into beastly circumstances.
Ray's LOF part 15. part D I quote.....
"…Let his heart be changed from man’s, and let a BEAST’S HEART BE GIVEN UNTO HIM: and let seven times pass over him" (Dan. 4:16).
King Nebuchadnezzar’s heart was turned into that of a beast, and Prov. 23:7 tells us:
"For as he thinks in his HEART, SO IS HE..."
And God calls us all "beasts"
"I said in my heart concerning the estate of the sons of man, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves ARE BEASTS" (Ecc. 3:18).
What was it the king of Babylon had to learn? What was it he believed to be true, that God says is not true, and therefore man must repent of?
What Nebuchadnezzar believed:
"The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY POWER, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?" (Dan. 4:30).
What God showed him to be the real truth:
"And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he does according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and NONE can stay [restrain] His hand..." (Dan. 4:35).
Nebuchadnezzar said that He did things by his own power for his own honour and majesty. Is this possible. Can any man do such things by his own power of will? No, "NONE" God’s Word states. On the other hand, does God always do according to HIS WILL among all the inhabitants of the earth? Yes. Do any inhabitants of the earth have the power of will to thwart God’s will? "NONE" God’s word states.
Now then, Does God say that He, "...WILL have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4)? ..............unquote
The fact that God is working all is a comfort. It is a powerful testimony of faith.
Just look at this testimony from a Newbie on the Forum: Re: Unequally yoked believers
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 05:59:19 PM »
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Hi Paula,
...........Today I discovered I have Prostate Cancer and I have great peace that this too is part of God's plan. And since God is good and his plan is perfect, all I have to do is trust in him and rest in his plan. Whew, thank God. If I were hung up on my carnal life I would be freaking out but I am not. But I digress, I see the bigger picture...............If this kind of story doesn't tear at heart strings pulling the fabric of our being to open up more to God then what can and what will.....God can and God will.....This is exactly what we are called to be and become.....Godly....in His image....His way not our way. His way causes us to be able through His strenght to be calm in the storm. Faithful enough to be bound and thrown into the fire, and blessed enough to be made mad only to come out the other end of the trial and say....
Dan 4 : 34 And at the end of the days, seven years, I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up my eyes to heaven and my understanding and the right use of my mind returned to me; and I blessed the Most High God and I praised and honored and glorified Him....
Hab 3 : 17...Though the fig tree does not blossom and there is no fruit on the vines, though the product of the olive fails and the fields yield no food, though the flock is cut off from the fold and there are no cattle in the stalls, Yet I will rejoice in the Lord.....
Habakkuk
knew something. God alone revealed it to him....Hab 2 : 2,3 And the Lord answered me and said, Write the vision....3 for the vision is for an appointed time.....
Habakkuk got it. He knew it and he was set free of circumstances of pain and suffering. Paul knew it too. What he knew gave him courage to press forward towards his own death that went against the desire and advice of his fellowship. Job did not know but found out.
We are here now in the appointed time as prophesied in the scriptures that offer promises that are Christ's alone to give to us.
I believe that once the inner core of our suffering is matured, then God gives us recogniton of His vision... the vision and the source of Pauls endurance and Habakkuks joy. ......
For me...this vision is.... there is NO FREE WILL...the closer I am moved and caused to approach this reveleation, the closer I connect with the particular fruit of His Spriti, namely Peace. Every other way, every other story and every other sermon for me....is only crumbs from the table of our King. For me the call is to understand, to comprehend and to acknowlege that God alone is God, He is Sovereign and is performing all in accordance to His plan and Will. In this, there is great comfort.
He is causing all to happen exactly as it is meant to happen.
Peace to you
Arcturus