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Author Topic: Murderers, fornicators, and Athiests??  (Read 1731 times)

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Michele

  • Guest
Murderers, fornicators, and Athiests??
« on: November 20, 2006, 08:28:43 AM »

I've been reading and reading here.  Some day's I find great comfort, others I find more to be worried or upset about.
Please help me understand this:
Here is a quote I read off another post:

("I understand what you're saying in both of your posts.  There is no doubt that God's will is being carried out within everyone's life and deeds.  However, I'm not sure how far we can take the idea of a person not being held accountable because of God's sovereignty.  For example, aside from missionaries - what about murderes, atheists, fornicators, etc.  Of course their deeds are all a part of God's sovereign operation, but it does not mean that they won't be judged harshly.")

I've been told time and again from others here that the scriptures say that everything is going according to God's Designed Purpose and According to Plan (no matter how difficult that may be for some of us to comprehend, I mean that even the really horrible things are in the plan I mean)  and that People who Do Not know or accept god/jesus "Athiests" are as they are because they have Not been called by God Yet so they are not to blame for this state of being and are not at fault for not believing.

It's hard enough to accept the fact that someone you love does not know God and living with them when you are a believer yourself and they think You are Nuts is even more difficult, but then you come here to find out the truth and feel somewhat comforted by God's mercy...only then to see them (non-believers) compared to murderers...even fornicators..compared to murderers? 

A non-believer is someone who is hard to live with if you Believe and they have Not yet been Called, and if I am not mistaken a fornicator is someone who has extra-marital sex (with someone other than the person to whom they are wed or pledged their commitment to), which is a terrible thing to be/do, no doubt, ...but compared to a Murderer...someone who purposely/maliciously takes a human life? 

Man that's harsh isn't it? WHy are non-believers (Athiests) talked of as if they are Evil?  Is it thier fault that God has not dragged them to him yet? I know "traditional" Christians treat non-believers as if they were horrifc and evil, but being married to one for nearly 20 years I KNOW that they just cannot Connect to God because they think of Him as a Myth.
Alternatively, when someone is a murder or fornicator they are choosing (according to God's plan) to do so...even if they think they are choosing it for themselves.....Well come to that maybe the Athiests are "choosing" to be as they are, but in any case...I don't know.  It just felt like a face slap somehow, even though I'm not an athiest, THank God, and I wish with all my heart that my loved ones were not either, but that's up to God.  I do know however that they'd never intentionally physically hurt another human being. 

I don't know.  It's just very sad/distressing for me, being married to an athiest and having found so much comfort here as to the facts that God WILL SAVE ALL, even Athiests and to just go on with my learning with God...only to find them compared to Murderers, a sin of which I always think of as one of the most horrific sins ever.

I have found so much to hope for here.  Can someone clear this up for me?

Thank you
M



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PKnowler

  • Guest
Re: Murderers, fornicators, and Athiests??
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2006, 09:06:50 AM »

Hi M,

   This is what I think. Those who do not believe are condemned or judged already. It is just a fact.

John 3:18 NKJV
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 (New American Standard Bible)
18" He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not
believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is not a hopeless thing so don't worry they will not always be condemned.

Think about it- there is no other name but the name of Jesus whereby men/women can be saved they can't save themselves. It is an appropriation of the blood to believe much as the blood on the doorpost. Jesus is the way the truth and the Life no man comes to the Father but through HIM. We have to believe to come.

We once were unbelievers ourselves. We know that God will reveal himself and every knee will bow so the victory is the Lord's. So once unbelievers believe in the Lord they are no longer condemned-read the verse again- it says He who believes in Him is not condemned. There will be discipline but all God's children are disciplined. God is not mocked we will reap what we sow. The discipline will be according to the action so I would not worry. I don't believe the discipline for a unbeliever will be the same as that for a murderer.


 Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

This is the way I understand it. I hope it helps.

Blessings, Paula
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orion77

  • Guest
Re: Murderers, fornicators, and Athiests??
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2006, 10:08:32 AM »

Amen Paula,

We must understand that there are many people claiming to know God, but truly do not.  To be honest, I have much better conversations with athiests concerning God than many so-called believers.  I have come to learn, that it is not so much in the knowledge we may acquire, but more importantly how we treat our fellow brethren and sisters, whether believers or not.  Don't take this wrongly, knowledge is very important, but more importantly is how we show that love towards others.  That knowledge begins to grow in us, and then it must grow outwardly towards others, without judgment or condemnation.


Michele, I understand your concerns and appreciate your honesty.  That faith God has given you will grow and mature until you become immovable, being founded on the Rock.  You now see God as a loving Father, let that console you.  None of us would bring an unjust punishment towards our own children and us being mere humans full of sin.  His ways are higher than ours, and He sees and knows the intent of mens hearts, seeing nothing is withheld from His eyes. 

Hope this will help.  God bless.

Gary
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stego

  • Guest
Re: Murderers, fornicators, and Athiests??
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2006, 06:05:33 AM »

I agree with Orion on this in that God judges/knows mens hearts.  We know that God does not judge man for sinning because he could have done otherwise (because he could not have), but rather ONLY because he needs to cleanse us our sins, and he ONLY does this because he loves us and it is in our best interest.  Let's consider the sin of Atheism.  How might God purge one of this sin?  Do we think that such purging would be as painful as what a murderer would have to go through?  Probably not.  But i think it really depends on the reason for being an Athesit.  It goes to the heart.  WHY did the person sin in this way?  If it was simply because all they had ever heard about God was that he was sending most of the world to hell, then i would think the purging/judgement would be as simple as showing the person that God is not really like this.  So in this case the sin is extrememly minor.  But then what if the reason is that you don't really care about the truth, but instead you'd rather make up your own truth so that you can be wise in your own eyes, and then be popular amongst those who are similarly careless of truth, so you start a website named evilbible.com and you preach this atheism like all who don't follow it are immoral, and that the God of the bible is actually evil?  Well then, this is going to be needful of a much much more painful purifying process.  In any case, God's judgement is done out of love.  I think we can liken our current spiritual state to physical ailments.  As of right now, everyone alive has some sort of ailment.  Some of us have spiritual cancer, or arthritis, or heart conditions, or bullet wounds, or broken bones and so on.  Curing some of these ailments is very painful, others not so much. 
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