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Author Topic: nature of great white throne judgement  (Read 2481 times)

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stego

  • Guest
nature of great white throne judgement
« on: November 28, 2006, 05:22:11 AM »

Hi all,
   I've got some questions about the Great White Throne Judgement.  I know the elect judge the world in this judgement in the lake of fire, but i am trying to imagine in my head what it might be like for someone in this judgement.  It is written that we are judged "by our works" in this judgement.  But by all of our works that we have ever done?  Or just by the ones for which the sinful condition still lingers?  So for example, if I hit someone with my fist when i was younger, but later i grew up and learned not to do that, would this work be judged in judgement despite the fact that I have already "repented" from this sin?  And then there is the question of HOW our works are judged... do you think that we watch our lives like a movie seeing all our sins thus making us feel guilty?  Or maybe we would relive some part of our life from the perspective of the person we hurt by sinning?  Or maybe none of this, but rather we live a completely new experience that is specifically designed to bring out our flaws so that we can feel guilty of our sins and we thus repent, maybe even spending a whole lifetime in the lake of fire thusly?  But then what role would the elect have in this...   Thoughts anybody?  Thanks.

Sean
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SandyFla

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2006, 03:40:15 PM »

Great question!

Jesus said in Matthew 12:36 - "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

The only verse I found that states otherwise is I Corinthians 11:31, which says, "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

From those two verses, I take it that we will be judged for everything we say and do, unless we judge ourselves now.

Hope that helps. Perhaps others can give a more indepth answer.

Sandy
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2006, 04:01:19 PM »

Hi stego,

I went through some of Ray's articles,
and have put together some of his teachings on the lake of fire.

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html ------------------------------------------

HOPE AND BLESSED ASSURANCE IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT

"And as it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, but after this THE JUDGMENT" (Heb. 9:27).
So all creation spoken of in Rom. 8 will ultimately die. And "after" death comes "judgment." Who is in charge of this judgment and when will it take place?
"Because He [God] has appointed A DAY, in which He will judge the world [how?] IN RIGHTEOUSNESS [eternal torture is NOT righteousness] by THAT MAN Whom He has ordained [‘For the Father judges no man, but has committed ALL judgment unto the Son,’ John 5:22]; whereof He has given ASSURANCE unto ALL MEN [Gee, could this ‘assurance to ALL men … in the WORLD" be the same as the ‘hope for all creatures in ALL CREATION’ that we just read about in Rom. 8:20? And just how can there be hope and assurance for all these lost, unrepentant, unbelievers of the world? Read on…], in that He has raised Him [Jesus] from the dead" (Acts 17:31).

THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD
The called and chosen were born to be Judges:
"Or are you not aware that the saints [the manifested Sons and Daughters of God] shall JUDGE THE WORLD? And if the world shall be judged by YOU, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (I Cor. 6:2).
"And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, and JUDGMENT was given unto them [the saints, the manifested Sons of God]…" (Rev. 20:4).
Every man will be judged and the Saints will do the judging:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it: and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were JUDGED EVERY MAN according to their works" (Rev. 20:13).

We must first be judged ourselves if we are to became the judges of the great sea of humanity.

We have already proved that "the fire shall try every man’s work" in I Cor. 3:13 is a spiritual match with Rev. 20:13 & 15 where "they were judged every man according to their works … in the lake of fire" And in both cases the "fire" is God’s SPIRIT. God’s spirit burns spiritual character flaws out of the hearts of mankind in a similar way in which literal fire burns up and abolishes wood, straw, and stubble. And since we are the Body of Christ and we too are made "flames of fire," then we also judge the deeds of men’s hearts.


http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html -----------------------------------------------

When God uses the SAME WORD to describe something that He wishes to accomplish, it behooves us to study deeply what that word means, especially when that word has to do with the very destiny of all peoples who have ever lived.
It is high time we dispense with the hypocrisy.
When God JUDGES US THROUGH CHASTENING (I Cor. 11:32) it is for our good and for our benefit and for our salvation. Why then do we think that God changes character when He likewise judges the wicked, unjust, and non-believers at the great white throne? Why? God changes NOT! God is NOT a respecter of persons. You read all of these Scriptures. Do we think the Scriptures LIE?
This is an absolutely marvelous teaching. God "judges" us by "chastening "(paideuo) us, which means, teaching, training, learning, disciplining, punishing, instructing, and educating. And God "graces" us also by this same "chastening" (paideuo) which does not change meaning from one Scripture verse to another. Notice how other translations render this word paideuo in Titus 2:11-12:
"Teaching us..." King James
"Instructing us..." American Standard Version
"Disciplining us... New Testament (Henry Alford)
"And schooling us..." The Centenary Translation (Montgomery)
"Training us..." The New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth)
Now it is true that the Greek word paideuo #3811 can also mean "punishment." But punishment is not the main force of this word. Notice that none of the above translations (nor any that I know of) translate this word, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, PUNISHING us that denying ungodliness ..." No, the force of this word is to DISCIPLINE, TRAIN, INSTRUCT, SCHOOL AND TEACH. Let’s at least have the sensibility of a ten year-old. Of what value is "disciplining, training, instructing, schooling, and teaching" if it goes on forever and ever and ever, and while being burned with fire, for ALL ETERNITY? Gee, do we think they will EVER "learn their lesson?" I, of course, speak as a fool.
All of these aspects of paideuo are with a view to amendment, correction, and setting right, not merely punishment for punishment’s sake. A father chastens his children with a view to amendment and correction, not for the sole sake of CAUSING PAIN! Why do we think carnal-minded human fathers are a billion times more noble and merciful in the disciplining of their children than God is in the disciplining (chastening -- judging -- gracing) of HIS children?

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html ----------------------------------------------

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones [valuable traits of Godly spiritual character] wood, hay, stubble [carnal traits of no value]; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because IT SHALL BE REVEALED BY FIRE; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is"
Every thought, every word, and every deed that proceeds out of the heart and mind of man is his "WORKS." And every thought, every word, and every deed of man will come into the judgment of Almighty God’s "CONSUMING FIRE." Notice that it is both our things of great value: "gold, silver, precious stones," and our things of no value: "wood, hay, stubble" that are tried in the fire, God’s Consuming Fire. Every person possesses knowledge, therefore, every person is a combination of both good and evil (for knowledge can only be a combination of both good and evil knowledge).
When God purges the hearts and minds of the wicked with His all-consuming spiritual fire, they will be UTTERLY ASHAMED! Notice what God says in Revelation 14:10 regarding anyone who is a part of this one world religious system:
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God [seeing that "For ALL nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of HER fornication…" Rev. 18:3], which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented [UTTERLY ASHAMED—spiritual and mental torment] with the fire and brimstone [God DIVINE spiritual fire] in the presence of the holy angels, and in THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 14:10).
They are going to have to face their sins and wickedness and hypocrisy, NOT in the presence of GOD ALMIGHTY, but in the presence of "the LAMB!" How embarrassing and shameful it will be for all those being purged in the God’s spiritual consuming lake of fire to see and acknowledge their whole life of sin in the very presence of the Lamb of God Who DIED FOR THEM! Every heart in the universe will melt like snow in a furnace when they face the LAMB OF GOD in their judgment!
God truly is NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS. GOD IS ABLE TO BRING ANY PERSON TO REPENTANCE. How could anyone deny it? There is no such thing as a person being so evil that he cannot be converted by the spirit of God. But God has a timetable, and He will follow that timetable. There is great wisdom in what God does and how He does it and when He does it and to whom He does.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I understand what Ray is teaching, but there has to be a lot more to it.

Since all will give an accounting of their life, both the good and bad,
then they would have to recall, in some way, their words or deeds?
And then repent and change their thinking or heart.

I do not believe it will be a terrible experience for all  ???
What about John the Baptist, and the prophets, and many others close to God in the OT.
I would think they would readily except the knowledge of Truth, not yet revealed to them.

And what about the children that are before the age of accountibility.
I understand there will not be any young or old, since all will be spirit,
but I would think they only need to be taught the Truth, not punished.
As the Greek word paideus means also to discipline, train, instruct, school and teach.

Maybe at that time, it will be more difficult to grasp the understanding of Truth, since all being spirit,
there is no physical means to use as lessons, like we have now  ???

Well I think I have speculated enough  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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longhorn

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2006, 09:05:30 PM »

Im pretty sure it's not going to be a picnic followed by a walk in the park.  OUCH.

Love in Christ

Longhorn
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stego

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 04:31:39 AM »

It seems there is much we still don't know.  But i would agree with the idea that some people will feel at home in the Lake of Fire, like some of the prophets of the Old Testement.  Thanks for the replies yall. 
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andrevan

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 05:57:32 AM »

Thanks Kat for summarizing some excellent sections from Ray's series.
This is an interesting topic. I always think of those "beaten" with many blows, and those "beaten" with few blows as a key to this subject. Perhaps a process of realization, shame, then repentance and finally cleansing? God is just and fair, so babies and even young children cannot be held accountable as adults are, I'm inclined to believe. I think this is where our carnal minds fail us though, as God's ways are not man's ways. No walk in the park though. ;D

Love to you all.
Andrevan.
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2006, 12:50:58 PM »

I have wondered if the Great White Throne Judgement is just part of the entire parable of Revelation?  Why is it literal in the midst of all metaphors & similies, and allegories???

If all hearts melt at seeing the Lamb why is there a need for punishment.  Living in this life is punishment enough it seems, and here in America we are the "lucky" ones, yet we read of our forum families problems and heartaches all the time. To be living under Saddams regime and maybe being shredded to death and then still have to be punished at the GWT??

Has anyone else ever thought this.  I can't be the only one ???

You can PM me if you want.  If any do answer please don't overload me with scripture.(only cuz I just need something simple right now)
Maybe there is no answer,  it seems for every answer I think of new questions. :-[

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2006, 05:04:39 PM »


Hi gmik,

The way I look at the GWT judgment,
is that it purges the person of the wrong ways that they have learned in this life.
It is not just punishment for punishments sake,
but the fire ( the Word of scripture taught by Christ and the Saints) is actually showing them their false understanding and bringing them to salvation, which is knowing Christ and His Truth.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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iris

  • Guest
Re: nature of great white throne judgement
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2006, 05:32:39 PM »

If we read Acts Chapter 9, about what Saul (Paul) experienced on
the road to Damascus, it gives us insight into what the
Great Whit Throne Judgement might be like.


Iris
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