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Author Topic: Who will be married to who?  (Read 4642 times)

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YellowStone

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Who will be married to who?
« on: December 04, 2006, 03:19:43 PM »

Hi everyone,

I have always had this question and I do not think it will ever be answered in this life; however, an email to Ray and his response has prompted me to ask anyhow. :)


Will We Know Our Loved Ones

In the Dark asked:

Do you have any scriptural proof that we know our loved ones in our future life? Does one scripture exist to prove this? I would like to hear it.


Dear In the Dark:
What I marvel at is where did the idea ever come from that maybe we WOUND'T know our loved ones in our future life?  Where and why would anyone ever come up with such a question? When we go to sleep at night, will we recognize our mate and children in the morning when we awaken?  I am just floored by the absurdity of the question. Where did such a question ever come from?

Will we remember our own name in our future life?  Will we remember that we even lived before?  Maybe we will be a different person and even we ourselves will not know who we are?   Will we remember whether we were a male or a female?  Will God even know who we are? I'm sorry, but to me the question is beyond bizarre.

Of course we will know our loved ones, and we don't need a Scripture for proof of it.  Matt. 8:11; Luke13:29--We will not only now our loved ones, but we will know people we didn't know in this life.  Matt. 22:28-- People will know who there WIFE was. Matt. 19:28--the Apostles will all know each other, etc., etc., etc.

God be with you,
Ray


So here is my question. My wife's first husband was killed and now she is married to me.  :)

Which of the following do you think will happen:

1. My Wife will have two husbands
2. The first husband will have my wife as his
3. I will be the husband of my wife
4. My wife say's to her self, what was I thinking and marries another....  :) :)

Or all of this pointless in regard to this:

Luk 20:34-35

34. And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35. But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

So does that mean that love and marriage, families and relatives are no longer?

Does this mean that their are neither husbands and wives, then the need for both to compliment one another in order to become whole. This has unforseen implications:

Eph 5:23
  • For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.


Since there is no more marriage then does this mean that the husband is no longer the head of his wife; if so then is Christ no longer the head of the church?

Are you still with me :)

Perhaps there is no more marriage in order for there to be no more husbands and wives and similariliy, there is no more church at least in the way we see the church today.

Like I said, perhaps these questions cannot be answered; however, because we all long for our future with God, surely I am not the only one who has considered such thoughts.

Lot's of love to you all,
Darren
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Craig

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 04:41:02 PM »

Darren,

You answered your own question, and supplied the scripture... Pointless :) :)

Craig
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Kat

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 06:37:38 PM »


Hi Darren,

The way I'm thinking is you have to look at the order of things... to marry is for the humanity in this age.

From the 1000 year reign and forward, those few in the first resurrection will be ruling with Christ, the elect will then be married to Christ. The rest of the world during that time will still be in their earthly body, but this world will undergo profound changes when Christ returns... what does that all in-tale? Will there still be marriage and child birth and all involved with that. It doesn't say in Scripture that I have found, but the next age is for "judgment."

John 5:29  and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation(G2920).

Strong's
G2920 by extension a tribunal; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.

If this age is for the process of good and evil for the people born into it and then the next age for the judgment of those. Will there still be marriage and more births?

But of course God gives everybody back their own spirit and memories... it's a new body we will receive, but we need all the memories of what we learned in this life and all else. So I do think we will know everybody. And will will have to give account, what use would that be if we couldn't remember what we did? Anyway hope that helps.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 04:42:31 PM by Kat »
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sansmile

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 07:23:38 PM »

Hi all,

Just popped in and seen thread.

The way i see it is, we will be spiritual "bodies". Love will reign. Love will be what heaven is all about. Marriage on earth now (is a shadow)  to prepare us,to be a bride (husband or wife) , for Jesus coming to claim us. It is easy to love those that love us, what  chastening, tribulations and teachings on earth by the HS is all about, is agape love.

God Bless Us all

Sansmile (Sandie)
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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 09:30:15 PM »

I am not  sure if I completely adhere to kat's argument. It sounds to me like a new doctrine. How do you presume that while christ is reigning with the elect, they rein in spirit while other are in body and continuing their lives, giving to marriage and being married? I am not sure if I miss something here. Is there any scriptural proof of what you are saying?
Or is it just an assumption?

Christ right now is spirit, satan and demon are spirits, the father is spirit. and the chronology is Father, son and the rest. Will Christ and the elects as spiritual beings cannot rule over other spiritual beings as God, spiritual being is ruling over other principalities and power in the heavenly places which are spiritual being? My confusion is the assertion that the elects and Christ rule over human being. Perhaps there are scriptures I am not familiar with that support Kat's posting.

I will appreciate any help.

Thanks.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 10:16:50 PM »

I am not  sure if I completely adhere to kat's argument. It sounds to me like a new doctrine. How do you presume that while christ is reigning with the elect, they rein in spirit while other are in body and continuing their lives, giving to marriage and being married? I am not sure if I miss something here. Is there any scriptural proof of what you are saying?
Or is it just an assumption?

Christ right now is spirit, satan and demon are spirits, the father is spirit. and the chronology is Father, son and the rest. Will Christ and the elects as spiritual beings cannot rule over other spiritual beings as God, spiritual being is ruling over other principalities and power in the heavenly places which are spiritual being? My confusion is the assertion that the elects and Christ rule over human being. Perhaps there are scriptures I am not familiar with that support Kat's posting.

I will appreciate any help.

Thanks.


Hello Prosizz,

Here is a "Readers Digest" version of events, I am trying to condense Kat's post here;

Those who are yet alive at Christ's second coming but unconverted will be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and His elect. The elect will be transformed, incorruptable at this point while the remainder of humanity is living (in the flesh) a peaceful life, satan will be bound so they will be without the constant strife and temptation that satan so generously provides.

After the "1000 years" satan will be loosed to do what he does so well, stir up trouble, then comes the end, proving beyond a doubt that the flesh is not capable of full conversion, even after humanity sees and lives a blissful existence under Christ and His Saints as soon as satan is loosed they fall prey to him. Kind of brings to mind a couple of people in a garden a long time ago..............

Then the White Throne Judgement, Lake of Fire and then the restoration of all things, God becomes "all in all."

Here is some scripture;


Revelation 20 (New International Version)


    The Thousand Years


 1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Satan's Doom
 7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
 11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Ray spoke of this at one of the conferences, it is an amazing thing, no one will be converted during the Millenium.

I will look for it and post it soon,

Joe

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Kat

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 01:34:35 AM »

Hi Prosizz,

Rev 19:11  And I saw Heaven opened. And behold, a white horse! And He sitting on him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12  And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13  And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

I think we can all agree this is referring to Jesus Christ's.

Rev 19:14  And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

These armies are the resurrected saint, coming with Christ.

Rev 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. For the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

The nations are on earth, and this is where Christ and the elect will come to rule the nations

Rev 19:15  And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16  And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Rev 12:5  And she bore a son, a male, who is going to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

Rev 2:26  And he who overcomes and keeps My works to the end, to him I will give power over the nations.
Rev 2:27  And he will rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.

This is what Jesus said about the people while He was on earth, and the nations have not changed.

Mat 15:8  "This people draws near to Me with their mouth, and honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
Mat 15:9  But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

His rule will be to bring or force the people on earth into obeying His commandments of love, because in doing these, all else fall into place, of obedience.

Mat 22:37  Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39  And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

That is what I see from these scripture.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 11:08:52 AM »

So if I understand well, the interpretation you are giving to the scriptures cited in revelation is literal. Well if that's the case then I agree with you all. I thought revelation is a parable or allegory. I will wait to hear or read what Ray said on that as Joe's mentioned in his posting.

Thank you all.
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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 11:34:00 AM »

I want to add this e-mail and response that Ray gave to add to my last posting.

 Hi Ray,

 I have a question that I have not found addressed and answered on your
 website. If ALL of
 Rev. is symbolic, is the 1000 year period of Christ's reign (Kingdom) on
 earth also symbolic and what about the 100 year period to follow where Satan
 is released from his "bottomless pit" for a time.

 I go to your site every day to read and learn and I always find something I
 didn't see before, which
 fills me with even greater desire to be not only "called" but "chosen".

 You and your family are always in my heart and prayers.

 Sue


Dear Sue:
I am afraid that you do what we all do at some time or another, and that is
to assume that the Scriptures say things that they don't.

Technically, nowhere does it actually say that Jesus will reign for a thousand
years, althought it can be deduced, and yes, it certainly is symbolic.

As as for the 100 year where you suggest that Satan is loosed, the Scriptures
absolutely do not defend such a "100 year" period. But yes, the "little season," is also
symbolic.  I will be writing on these subject in the future.

God be with you,
Ray
 
 
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YellowStone

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 11:50:44 AM »

Hi All,

This has thread has turned into a very interesting topic of discussion.

I agree with the general view that there will be no marriage. (I kind of knew that going in) :)

But here is another question: Once the physical has passed away and we're all perfect all powerfull spirits, what then?

We will be as as our Father, spirits of love. How do you think this love will be used. It seems to me that a whole new chapter will begin and this love that we have will be used in ways that I am not even able to imagine.

Just a few thoughts,

Darren
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Kat

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 12:50:38 PM »

Well, yes Revelation is symbolic, but how far do you carry this.
Does that mean that nothing in Rev. is physically real?
It is more of a question of seeing what the symbols means in the context of what is pyhically real.

This is an excerpt from Ray's article 1, 'lake of fire'.

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html ------------------------------------------

LITERAL OR SYMBOLIC?

In many cases it is not difficult to determine whether a verse is literal or not. But, since we use figures of speech so often we tend to forget that much of what we say daily is not literally true. Many of us would hardly be able to carry on a conversation if we had to drop out of our vocabulary every word and every phrase we speak that is NOT LITERALLY TRUE. The English language, as well as all other languages, is just filled with symbolic and metaphorical phrases.

The first eleven verses of Chapter one in Revelation are an introduction regarding where, how, and what John is going to record for us. Much of this introduction can be taken literally, however, not all. Beginning with verse twelve, however, we are confronted with one symbol after another for the remainder of the entire twenty-two-chapter-book.

Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true.

The fact is there are many many truths in the Bible that are not literally true.

Jesus "said" that the bread He gave His disciples at the Lord’s supper was His body. Yet, Jesus Himself explains in other places that this was not literally true. He gave them literal bread, and not His literal physical flesh. What that bread represented, and symbolized, was indeed, His body--but not his physical body.

Jesus said that the words that he spoke were SPIRIT (John 6:63). Jesus Christ changes not. His words are STILL spirit and they certainly were spirit when John wrote the words of Christ regarding His unveiling or revelation. Just as we physically feed on physical bread for PHYSICAL LIFE, thus also we spiritually feed on Jesus Christ’s spiritual body for SPIRITUAL LIFE.

Understand this! Some think that by accepting the Scriptures as they are given (in the case of Revelation that means AS SYMBOLS), that somehow this "spiritualizes away" the teaching. What? It is the "spiritual" aspect of these symbols that IS THE REAL THING; THE REAL UNDERSTANDING! Physical things "pass away" whereas spiritual things are eternal! The very FACT that this book is written in "symbols" is proof positive that the understanding of them is SPIRITUAL and not physical or literal.

Symbols, metaphors, and parables ARE NEVER LITERALLY TRUE! But they powerfully demonstrate SPIRITUAL TRUTHS!

"This is the second death--the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15 and 21:8) is a metaphor that is no more literal than "Jesus taking the bread...said, ‘Take, EAT. This IS My body" (Mat. 26:27).

Paul did not instruct Timothy to "STUDY" the scriptures if a mere casual reading is all that is necessary to comprehend its many deep and profound teachings. On the other hand, I believe that those who have "studied" God’s Word are able to open up much understanding to those who are not called to teach (even babes, or minors as our Lord stated).

I want to quickly show my readers just how impossible it is to assume most of God’s word is literal.

Again I state: All God’s Word is TRUE, however, much of it is figurative language which is not literally true to fact, but rather in what the figurative language of symbols, metaphors, and parables represent.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Darren,

I don't believe the physical will pass away.
The whole universe was created for a reason, who knows what purpose God has for that.
Of course we will be spirits of love, but so much more too.
We were created with thinking minds,
that I believe we will use for incredible wondrous things,
as you said that we can not even imagine now.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 01:05:05 PM by Kat »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 01:04:23 PM »

Hi All,



But here is another question: Once the physical has passed away and we're all perfect all powerfull spirits, what then?

We will be as as our Father, spirits of love. How do you think this love will be used. It seems to me that a whole new chapter will begin and this love that we have will be used in ways that I am not even able to imagine.

Darren


1 Corinthians 2:9
     
However, as it is written:
   "No eye has seen,
      no ear has heard,
   no mind has conceived
   what God has prepared for those who love him"

                ;)

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe





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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 01:13:54 PM »

kat, are we turning in circle? Do you mean that the scriptures you quoted me earlier today are literal? So what do you think of Ray's answer to Sue that I posted?

Something may be literal in revelation but I am wondering if we can attribute the passages you and Joe posted from revelation to the fact that Christ and the elect are reigning on earth in as spiritual beings while their subjects are physical beings?


Again, I may be missing something here but it just does not add up for me.

Thanks.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2006, 02:12:36 PM »

I want to add this e-mail and response that Ray gave to add to my last posting.

 Hi Ray,

 I have a question that I have not found addressed and answered on your
 website. If ALL of
 Rev. is symbolic, is the 1000 year period of Christ's reign (Kingdom) on
 earth also symbolic and what about the 100 year period to follow where Satan
 is released from his "bottomless pit" for a time.

 I go to your site every day to read and learn and I always find something I
 didn't see before, which
 fills me with even greater desire to be not only "called" but "chosen".

 You and your family are always in my heart and prayers.

 Sue


Dear Sue:
I am afraid that you do what we all do at some time or another, and that is
to assume that the Scriptures say things that they don't.

Technically, nowhere does it actually say that Jesus will reign for a thousand
years, althought it can be deduced, and yes, it certainly is symbolic.

As as for the 100 year where you suggest that Satan is loosed, the Scriptures
absolutely do not defend such a "100 year" period. But yes, the "little season," is also
symbolic.  I will be writing on these subject in the future.

God be with you,
Ray
 
 


Hello again Prosizz,

Nowhere here does Ray say that everything is exclusively symbolic in Revelation or any book of the bible, it could be said that it is primarily a book of symbolic references.

The 1000 year reign represents a long period of time, there is no scriptural authority for 100 years of satan being loosed in any manner in any translation I am aware of, it sounds like a doctrinal pipe dream.

Reread Kat's post where she pasted a portion of Lake of Fire Part 1, it should be very helpful.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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Kat

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2006, 02:33:15 PM »

Hi Prosizz,

Let's look at it this way.
We are in the age now where very few are being given the spirit of Christ, many called few chosen.
Only those with the spirit of Christ will be in the first resurrection, when Christ appears.

2Ti 4:8  Now there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that Day; and not to me only, but also to all those who love His appearing.

There will still be lots of people left on earth that are not resurrected, that will then live over into the 1000 years (I know the 1000 yrs. is symbolic, but it explains the age I'm talking about).
So this age will be a period of time when Satan is locked up, Rev.20:3,
and Christ and the raised saints will rule.
Can you see that the people on earth will still be physical, but as Christ was after His resurrection, when He appeared to the disciples many times, so will He and the Saints be on earth.
There will be New Jerusalem, not a literal city, but formed by the saints themselves described in Rev. 21.  You have to understand this has a spiritual aspect as well as a physical one.
But at the end of the chapter you can see that the nations seem to see it and relate to it.

Rev 21:24  By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,
Rev 21:25  and its gates will never be shut by day--and there will be no night there.
Rev 21:26  They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations.

So this will be an actual place or city formed by the saints, and Christ as their head, that will govern the people or nations of the earth.  The people will come to the city, but they can't enter a spiritual place.
But the saints will go out to them and I believe out into the world to govern it.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2006, 02:44:25 PM »

Joe, I am going to ask this again one more time then drop it. Where does it say that Jesus and the elects are going to reign spiritually as spiritual beings over physical beings? The scriputures I have seen so far do not stipulate such thing.
I will be looking forward to Ray's writing on the subject.

Thanks.
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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2006, 02:50:01 PM »

Ok Kat I see your point now base on the scripture you quoted. Please don't get me wrong, I beleive Christ is going to reign with the elects but I am not clear on the interpretation you gave. I am of a different opinion but I will wait patiently to read Ray's writing on the subject as he told Sue he will be writing in the future on the subject.

Thanks for you endeavor to explain.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2006, 04:23:55 PM »

Joe, I am going to ask this again one more time then drop it. Where does it say that Jesus and the elects are going to reign spiritually as spiritual beings over physical beings? The scriputures I have seen so far do not stipulate such thing.
I will be looking forward to Ray's writing on the subject.

Thanks.

Hello Prosizz,

I will give it one more try, then I promise to leave it alone.


Rev 20 (King James)   

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them (symbolic), and judgment was given unto them (not symbolic): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God (mainly symbolic), and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads , or in their hands (symbolic); and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years (time frame symbolic).

 5But the rest of the dead (The risen Saints are ruling over some group, the humans who are alive at His coming, it plainly states all the other dead are still dead.) lived not again until the thousand years were finished (time frame symbolic). This is the first resurrection (not symbolic).

 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection (definitely not symbolic): on such the second death hath no power (not symbolic), but they shall be priests of God and of Christ (not symbolic), and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If the rest of the dead stay that way until after the thousand years were finished, who exactly do Christ and His Elect rule over during the Millenium?

I know there are those who believe they are reigning with Christ now but we are not yet a finished, completed product, we have not endured to the end. Christ is reigning in the elect but the elect have not been raised "incorruptable" as long as they are still living in the flesh. Only after the 1st resurrection will the elect be "incorruptable."

We can respectfully agree to disagree if we must.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe



 


 
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Prosizz

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2006, 04:51:10 PM »

I respectfully follow you interpretation of things and I do agree with the scriptures you have quoted with the blue writings to emphasized symbolic and non-symbolic aspect of those scriptures. So just as you say we can agree to disagree here cause, the question it self that "If the rest of the dead stay that way until after the thousand years were finished, who exactly do Christ and His Elect rule over during the Millenium?" does not justify the assumption that Christ is ruling over physical beings in the millenium while he and the elects are spiritual beings.

What I have liked with Ray's teaching is how he supports everything he says with scriptural reference with at least one witness. Here the question you pose is based on you interpretation that since some of the deads are not participant in Christ and the elects reign then Christ and the elects must be ruling over physical beings who are yet to die (no specific scriptural reference).

By the way I do not beleive that I am reigning with Christ this very instant.

Thanks Joe for your input, perhaps is not yet time for me to grasp it yet but I will agree to disagree with you for the moment.

Ciao.

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sansmile

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Re: Who will be married to who?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2006, 05:54:03 PM »

Hi all,
I am not great at explaining myself but will  try to show what i have saw in the scriptures.

In the following scriptures it shows how we meet the Lord when He comes:

[(1Th 4:16)  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(1Th 4:17)  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


I have read somewhere in Rays teachings about the meaning of the word meet, which is used here. He said that when the elect meet Him, it's like when someone meets an important person to escort them e.g  the president visits a foreign land and is MET by the people of that land and brought to where they have to go. So what Ray was saying is that i verse 17  those alive and in Christ will MEET Christ in the clouds but then come back to earth to rule those that are there. Mankind! Non -believers.

Will try and find where he talks about this and post after.

Also, I believe but i may be wrong? that in Isa, its talking about the millenium rule;

(Isa 30:16)  But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.

(Isa 30:17)  One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.

(Isa 30:18)  And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.

(Isa 30:19)  For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.

(Isa 30:20)  And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:

(Isa 30:21)  And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

(Isa 30:22)  Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.

(Isa 30:23)  Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.

(Isa 30:24)  The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.

(Isa 30:25)  And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

(Isa 30:26)  Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

(Isa 30:27)  Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:

(Isa 30:28)  And his breath, as an overflowing stream, shall reach to the midst of the neck, to sift the nations with the sieve of vanity: and there shall be a bridle in the jaws of the people, causing them to err.

(Isa 30:29)  Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD, to the mighty One of Israel.

(Isa 30:30)  And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

(Isa 30:31)  For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.

(Isa 30:32)  And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.

(Isa 30:33)  For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.



Right through to isa chapter 33 talks of this, up until the judgement.


(Isa 33:6)  And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

(Isa 33:7)  Behold, their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly.

(Isa 33:8)  The highways lie waste, the wayfaring man ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.

(Isa 33:9)  The earth mourneth and languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed and hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off their fruits.

(Isa 33:10)  Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.

(Isa 33:11)  Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, as fire, shall devour you.

(Isa 33:12)  And the people shall be as the burnings of lime: as thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire.

(Isa 33:13)  Hear, ye that are far off, what I have done; and, ye that are near, acknowledge my might.

(Isa 33:14)  The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

(Isa 33:15)  He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

(Isa 33:16)  He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

(Isa 33:17)  Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

(Isa 33:18)  Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers?

(Isa 33:19)  Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.

(Isa 33:20)  Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

(Isa 33:21)  But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.

(Isa 33:22)  For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.




Am i way off here??

God Bless You all
Sansmile (sandie)

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