> General Discussions
I wish that someone could help me with this.
TimothyVI:
I am really not understanding the apparent contradiction in exactly how
many Gods we have.
I do not believe in the trinity, but why did Jehovah tell us
numerous times that there is no other God but Him, and then
in the new testament, introduce us to his Father God? He even taught us to pray to
his Father.
We now have two distinct Gods, Ray seems to make this clear.
Even in a recent email to Ray he said "Jesus was the LORD [Jehovah] God of the Old Testament. He "emptied" Himself is the word used in Phillipians to describe what Jesus did in order to become man, flesh, so that He could DIE. He has once again been returned to this splender, although he always had the "glory" of God upon Him even in His flesh. Jesus now possesses with the Father all power in heaven and earth, and all judgment is given unto Him."
No one would touch my last question on this same subject. In fact it was the only question in the last six months on this forum that no one would comment on. Is this a forbidden subject on this forum,
or do other people have the same difficulty with understanding it?
I am trying to get this straight in my mind. I pray each time that I study the bible, for God to help me
to understand his word the way he wanted it understood. I think that is why he has brought me to this forum.
Without a trinity, or at least a duality, how do we reconcile "Exd 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God" how do we reconcile that with praying to two Gods? Was it that only in the old testament were we to worship only one God, but after Jesus introduced us to his Father in the new testament, we could worship another God as well?
If no one else can help me with this, I won't ask again.
Tim
hillsbororiver:
Hi Tim,
At the Mobile Conference last September during the course of Ray's presentation this question was brought up, as a matter of fact it was me that asked it. You can hear the answer on the audio.
In a nutshell "God" is a title comprised of the Father and the Son, and they have no part of the pagan gods such as Baal or any other.
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
His Peace and Wisdom to you,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
Here it is Timothy,
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1793.0.html
hillsbororiver:
In John Chapter 14 Jesus explains His relationship with the Father to His disciples;
John 14 (King James Version)
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
Pax Vobiscum:
I sense that you are not yet satisfied with the answers from Ray and those posted here, although the answers I read were intriguing.
My expertise lies in the NT, not the old, but I do know a bit about this stuff. But since I am at work and have limited time today, I'll give you some pointers from off-my-cuff....
The answer to your question lies in ancient worship of regional gods in known world. You know the Amy Grant tune, "El Shaddai"? There's a key. El was one of the gods worshipped by the Oikumene of the ancient world. El was the "father of the gods" and the big cheese, as it were. El now has come to mean Yaweh/Jehovah. Does Beth-El ring a bell-el? Beth-El or Bethel is "House of God."
When the OT writers credited Jehovah as saying essentially to not have other gods before Him, it is clear that there were some in the region worshipping other gods. In fact, (hold on to your seat) it was acceptable at that time (and for a long time after) to believe in more than one god! Only after finding Moses' sermon did the ancients really settle on Jehovah as the only God.
This is a very "quick and simple" answer to a very complex question. I hope it gets you started on some very intersting research.
You keep learning and posting and I'll help all I can.
Beware the answers you seek.... you just might find them!
Peace.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version