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Author Topic: Robots/Free Will?  (Read 2863 times)

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Craig

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Robots/Free Will?
« on: December 09, 2006, 04:56:32 PM »

In the beginning I assume God was alone.

I have no way of knowing this to be true but for the sake of argument Iíll say he was alone.

For some reason God decided to create other entities.

Some claim that he wanted sons and daughters to share eternity.

Some feel that he created them so they can witness his greatness and glorify and worship him.

We cannot know the reason but it is important to point out that God would be complete within himself.

He would not need to be reminded of his greatness, he would not need to be worshiped.

There would be no reason to create other beings as GOD IS COMPLETE within himself and is in need of nothing. He does not need company he does not need love.

We know only that IT WAS HIS WILL TO DO SO.

When God created these entities he could have created them perfectly.

That is to say that they would be without flaw and would act according to the letter of his will.

But apparently this is NOT THE WILL OF GOD.

In the scriptures we find that there are basically two kinds of beings, Angels and Man.

In the scriptures we also find that neither the Angels nor Man are created perfect.

The scriptures clearly state that the Angels and Man SIN.

From this I can draw the conclusion that God created beings that were flawed deliberately.

WHY! Surely God with the infinite knowledge and power to create the universe and a planet so full of life that if you were to count all the living things in it, it would be like trying to number the stars.

Surely he could have created entities that were as perfect as himself.

It would seam that this God created beings that would displease him deliberately.

And we are told in the scriptures the he imposed laws for these beings that must be followed to the letter.

And the penalty for an infraction of the law is DEATH.

Even I an uneducated simple man can see that this is completely illogicalÖ.

There must be a reason for the flawed nature of the creations of God.

The only possible reason for this flaw is that it is not a flaw at all.

God is sovereign he is all in all, perfect in all ways he does not create imperfection.

God could have created a being full of love and perfection to serve him and please him in any manner that he wished, but he didnít.

WHY????

I believe that it was Gods will that they WANT TO OBEY HIM OF THERE OWN FREE WILL.

Think about this

if we were created to serve the will of God to perfection loving him obeying his every wish WE WOULD BE NOTHING MORE THAN ROBOTS simple puppets on a string

Truly we would be of little value, why bother to create us at all.

But if you could create something that would TRULY DESIRE to serve you and to TRULY LOVE YOU With all of itís heart mind and soul. And do this of itís own free will.

Then you would really have something special something truly unique.

But there is a problem with creating a being with free will.

it can disobey you!

It can SIN it can choose not to love you, it can even choose to hate you.

It can choose to do that which is destructive and unhealthy, things that are an abomination to you

Things that will destroy what you have created.

Now we have a dilemma what to do about EVIL you create a being with free will Evil can now come to Fruition Before what was just a concept can now become a reality Evil can now exist.

Now I think you can see the flawed nature of the creations of God is simply this, you cannot have free will without the possibility of EVIL.

I believe that God knew what would happen when he created man with free will.

I believe that he placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the middle of Eden so that man would fall because it was necessary for man to fall.

We as sons of God must learn of the pitfalls of the path of evil.

We must endure the sorrows of wickedness we must learn of the oppression of sin

We must learn the destruction of war.

It is only through these trials that we will come to love righteousness

And to TRULY LOVE GOD.

I know that you have strong feeling on this matter I also know that you believe that

"The fact that God has a foreknowledge of everything proves that free will is an impossibility"

I believe you are incorrect.

I feel that Gods foreknowledge of everything simply because he is outside of time and space.

This is a fact because he existed before the universe was created and time is a part of the physical universe

Therefore he is outside of time itself and he can see and move from age to age at will.

I do however believe that you are correct about Godís purpose and plan.

I believe that he can and does cause all thing to come about as he wills them to be.

I also believe that your argument that circumstance influences our every decision is true but I donít

Believe that God controls every decision.

Jesus responded that Peter had no more freedom of the will to stick by such a statement than a donkey:

"Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, YOU SHALL DENY ME thrice"

The reason that Jesus knew that he would deny him was because he knew the future

As I said before God is outside of time and therefore can see the fruition of all events so Jesus knew what would happen.

So it stands to reason that he may not have had to cause the circumstances which led to Peter denying him

He just foresaw the event taking place in the time line.

Now before you rip my theories to shreds please understand I am not trying to prove you wrong I am trying to prove to myself that what I believe is correct and I thought that a man with the knowledge

You possess could show me where I am wrong.

I have come to believe your teachings on HELL to be correct.

I have believed that there was no trinity for a very long time thank you for confirming it.

Your brother in Christ

Frank


Dear Frank:

Your email is entirely too long. You could have said all that in a half dozen sentences. You really are failing to see how unscriptural and foolish your many statements are.† The old "nothing but robots" argument will never die. You desire to have a "free will," and that is the only reason that you are fighting for it. Listen to yourself.............

For example:† "The reason that Jesus knew that he would deny him was because he knew the future As I said before God is outside of time and therefore can see the fruition of all events so Jesus knew what would happen."

Listen: The future has not occurred until it has occured. Or as Yogi once said: "It's not over till it's over." If the future is dependant upon our decisions that are truly "free" and not caused to happen, then the future cannot be known, NOT EVEN BY GOD. But, since God does know all that is in the future, it is proof positive that there is no such thing an effect which did not have a cause. If an event (an effect)† that WILL happen is both free to happen and free not to happen, then why DOES IT HAPPEN?† If it was "free" to NOT HAPPEN, then why did it HAPPEN.† What CAUSED IT TO HAPPEN against its supposed freedom to NOT HAPPEN. How could an effect NOT HAVE BEEN EFFECTED (that's freedom)?† The instant an "effect" comes about, it has lost all "freedom" to have NOT come about. Therefore ALL THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED was not "free" to not happen at all. If it were, theoretically, NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE WOULD HAVE EVER HAD TO HAPPEN. Things are CAUSED to happen and that Cause is what we call "GOD."† What I have just stated cannot be argued with any wisdom, logic, or true knowledge. To argue against what I have stated is sheer foolishness. Unfortunately, precious few can see it or understand it even though the Scriptures are very clear on it.

God be with you,

Ray
« Last Edit: December 10, 2006, 12:25:26 PM by hillsbororiver »
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