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Author Topic: Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...  (Read 2629 times)

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Indagator

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« on: April 03, 2006, 01:07:22 AM »

that this is going to be a long process.  

I was reading Numbers today, and came upon something interesting.  The part about Balaam and his donkey.  I was taught something there, but it lead me to check something else out...namely the word "sword".  So, I broke out e-sword and started searching as I have to...that's just who I am.  

I started at the beginning, even knowing that "sword" through most of the bible refers to God's Word (son, Christ).  Things break down for me in a wierd way I guess...I don't immediately recognize the word for what it is.  I generally have to sit here and read a verse over and over and over again, and all the while the Spirit is here with hand on my shoulder telling me " read it again, you're getting there".  I suppose it's a process, and being an artist I can understand that  :) .  I wonder how familiar this is to some of you here.

I started at Genesis...

Gen 3:24  So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Then I started looking about,  using other translations and a couple of different concordances to help guide me through the "fog" all the while asking the Spirit to help me find truth.  From that one verse it took me about two hours to come up with ...

Gen 3:24  So he cast out Adam (man, mankind, flesh); and he caused Cherubims to permanently reside from the beginning of the garden of Eden, and also a flaming (enchanted?) sword which turned every way (causes confusion?), to keep (to guard, hedge about with thorns, to take heed of oneself) the course of life/journey of the tree of life (Cross of the living?).

Is this in fact being with Christ, then falling away/being cast out? It seems the flaming sword is put there to confuse us (...which turns every way,).  What is this sword? Is it the Church? Is it the Word?  Is it Christ himself?  It's placed there seemingly to make the path purposely difficult (hedge about with thorns, take heed of/JUDGE oneself)...BUT...if that's true, then you must be judging yourself along the course of life...or the journey of the Cross of the Living.  "Take up your cross and follow me, and I will give you life...Give up your carnality, and follow me...become spirit".  I have to follow him through the "thorny hedge" and judge myself while passing through the sword/word of confusion.  These things do not occur one after the other, but occur all at once! "Behold, I come like a thief in the night..." and "I am the Alpha and the Omega"  It's a continuous process.  I am always walking through those thorns with him, following...and yet being confused because I want to reach the Cross of the Living God, and there are deceivers about...and even at the same time I carry this cross?

Then, I even started another verse...

Gen 27:40  And by YOUR sword(YOUR word,not mine) shall you live and shall be kept in bondage to your kin(those like you, the church); and it shall happen that you shall become lord and you shall deliver this burden from off your neck.

I will be held by my "Christian-Catholic family" for a time, but at some point I will become lord (Christ, Christ within...the seed is planted, the divine spark within that must come forward) and from there, I will throw off the bonds of the "Church".  Once I "become" Christ or Christ-like, I no longer need or have use for the "Church".  I will be so very honest here...when I read this at first it was the same old thing, but when I'd read it over and over, every hair on my body stood on end.

You'll have to forgive me for some confusion that I'm sure will occur from this post.  Some  of the things that occurred to me are in parenthesis, and some are not...I just copy/pasted most of it from my study notes and here and there added things that occurred to me along the way.

I know this is going to be a long, slow process just by these two verses alone it took me over two hours to "get" to some extent.  There have been a few times when I wanted to post something in response to someone else  etc, but don't do so because that small still voice tells me to stay under.  Every now and then I get this feeling of just plowing through it all, but I have to be patient I know.  The problem is, patience is definately NOT my greatest virtue.  I wonder if this was not the thorn in Paul's side, because it's definately my thorn.

Anyway, admonition, chastisement and just general opinion is welcome  :).  I'm told that each of us has a certain talent/purpose.  I believe that to be for a reason.  We must be strong in each other...we must all be made into the image of Christ/God.  I know at times I'm going to fall short in understanding and someone will be there to correct me, and if by God's will, vice versa.   Thanks for reading/opinions guys...tarsus/desert sucks but it takes away the unneccesary things while I'm being tempted to believe what is untrue, yet the Spirit is still here telling me to read it over and over  lol.  I don't post often because I'm meant more to read and learn and understand now...but it can't hurt to ask now and then for some support I think, whether by admonition or whatever is called for.  I for the most part now, just read, and see, and listen as best I can.  I get this feeling of "Must you all be so angry?" (NOT referring to you guys at all...it's just something that popped up in my head, and I'm not sure why I needed to type that but there it is...I think it means everyone?).  

Thanks again for reading and any help you can provide everyone  :D

In Christ,
The Seeker
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orion77

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2006, 01:45:58 AM »

Indagator, welcome and stay in His word and study yourself to be approved.  The truth is not laying out in the middle of a field for everyone to find, it must be searched for like a buried treasure.  Diligently seek the Lord and He will reward you.  Once it is found, my oh my, it's a whole new life.  It's all about love and forgiveness.

It is great when our eyes are finally opened, but the world will not want to hear what you have to say.  You will become a true disciple of Jesus, who follows in His footsteps.  Yet, in this world is not an easy thing, but never fear for its no longer you that are living but Him who is in you.  

For me, it took the finding out who the beast was that made a dramatic change.  Truth is, its not my life anyway, so I follow the will of the Maker.

God bless you in your search,

Gary
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ertsky

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2006, 01:14:28 PM »

Hi Indagator

always good to see someone digging in to seek understanding of the mighty scriptures as Gods spirit teaches because then they can be used of God to further my understanding.

with that in mind i offer the following concept which you are probably already familiar with

the bible verses explain each other, so this verse teaches

1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

spiritual with spiritual verse with verse line upon line precept upon precept here a little there a little

as God has mercy our understanding grows

so no verse is of it's own interpretation, thats how so much dodgy teaching gets an audience but...

2Pe 1:19  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

no verse is it's own interpretation other verses will interpret it as God's spirit teaches

Mat 18:16  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

so as we seek and keep on seeking we shall find (God willing)

anyways i don't want to type on so long but i hope we both will get a little of this verse from God

Eph 1:17  That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
 
Col 2:2  That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
Col 2:3  In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.


also i am thinking

hidden treasure

so my approach (which is completely useless if God doesn't have mercy) is to study hard.

i am deeply in debt to Ray and Mikes sites for being used of God to bring to my attention so many principals and concepts that have been like very precious treasure

and of course God for having mercy that endures forever and leading me to these sites

also

i think He only gives these things to who ever He wants to give then to when He is good and ready to reveal more of Himself in them

for example often after i endure chastening God will teach

another example is when i finally said "i give up, i cannot do it" He began to do more than i could ask or even think

so as you say it is a lifelong process

Joh 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

i believe if God wants me to know i will know and if He doesn't i will not know

but that is no excuse not to study hard ;) He is a rewarder of those that dilligently seek Him

2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and thanks for the inspiration to type all this Indigator

f
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bobf

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2006, 05:21:19 AM »

Isaiah 66

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire

16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.  

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.  

18 For I [know] their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.  

19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to] Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.  

20 And they shall bring all your brethren [for] an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.  

21 And I will also take of them for priests [and] for Levites, saith the LORD.


There is no way to get to the tree of life except by passing through fire (God's judgment) and the sword (God's Word). That is how God pleads with all flesh.  We must endure God's judgment and remain faithful to His Word to the end to be saved.  God then takes those few who "escape"  i.e. overcome as priests & Levites.  God sends these chosen back to the Gentiles to retrieve all their brethren into the holy city as an offering to the Lord.
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ertsky

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2006, 01:55:33 PM »

right on bobf !

i really got something great from your post

Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.


f
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Indagator

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2006, 05:06:45 PM »

Hmm, this is going well  :).  It also reminds me that there are a couple of things I need to read again  :lol: .  If I get something else soon, I'll pop back in.
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bobf

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2006, 10:30:29 PM »

Quote from: ertsky
right on bobf !

i really got something great from your post
f


Thanks ertsky!  I'm glad that blessed you.  Here is something else I saw about this Isaiah passage.  It sounds an awful lot like this verse in Revelation.

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

Revelation 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.


So then we have folks entering the city AFTER the New Jerusalem has come down from the heavens.
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ertsky

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2006, 12:42:48 AM »

Quote
God sends these chosen back to the Gentiles to retrieve all their brethren into the holy city as an offering to the Lord.


Quote
So then we have folks entering the city AFTER the New Jerusalem has come down from the heavens.


this sort of stuff is way WAY over my understanding

lately i'm realising again how much i've got to make more time to study.

i mean i haven't even begun to get a handle on the plan as it is concealed in the OT types

but i'll be sure to keep these things in mind as i finally find time to study more

i've just got to take more time for His Word

thanks bobf
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ertsky

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2006, 01:16:26 AM »

oh hang on, i understand the new jerusalem to BE the elect

so how would that fit with this, entering what city ?

well as you can tell i'm a bit fuzzy at the moment

 
Quote
So then we have folks entering the city AFTER the New Jerusalem has come down from the heavens.


oh well maybe after i have a kip it will all become clearer

i'm almost passing out with tiredness, must get some sleep :)

f
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bobf

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2006, 02:47:14 AM »

Quote from: ertsky
oh hang on, i understand the new jerusalem to BE the elect so how would that fit with this, entering what city ?


Mikes spiritual meaning of words says the New Jerusalem is God's people.  Also it is the bride of Christ. http://www.*not-allowed*.com/words.html

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

As you can see, people do enter into the holy city.  First only the  elect enter.  According to Revelation the elect are those who overcome the world.  According to Isaiah 66:19 they are the ones who 'escape' (i.e endure) the judgment of God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

Christ makes the elect pillars in the temple of God within the city.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And the city is the bride of God.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.  18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

God rejoices in New Jerusalem and HER people.  Apparently God's people as a whole ARE the city.

So if you look back on the Revelation & Isaiah verses I quoted, my point was that both passages say the same thing: That those who 'escape' or 'overcome' will become God's priests and He will send them bring their brethren from the nations into the holy city.  So they too will be God's people.
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ertsky

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Well, I've finally come to accept (mostly lol)...
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2006, 10:43:40 AM »

i always thought the bride of Christ IS the elect

well more studying for me

not enough hours in the day

f
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