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fairness

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stego:
Thanks for the replies everybody.

ROM 9:14-9:21 talks about how someone might question God's reason for blaming us for what we do even though it is God who has caused us to do what we do, both evil and good.  And although it doesn't say it in these verses,  we know that he doesn't blame us for what we do because we could have done otherwise, but rather for the purpose of correction.   And again, we know that the evil were created to do evil for a time for the good purpose of bringing the knowledge of evil (and thus knowledge of and capacity to experience good) to all humanity.  So I can be content with this. 

The ONLY part i don't see as fair is the fact that the elect get a whole ages worth more of life then the non-elect.  But i suppose that the fairness of this just has yet to be revealed to us and we just need to have faith.

I know that God must be perfectly fair and perfectly good even if i can't see it, but that doesn't stop me from desiring to see it.  And I do think that ROM 9:20 saying "Who do you think you are to question God?" means that we should not lose sight of the fact that we are mere human and cannot understand all of God's ways...  BUT, that doesn't mean that we should not try to understand how God's plan is fair and righteous and good.  Because if we gain greater insight into this, I think we will find ourselves feeling closer to God. 

Peace,
   Sean

kennymac:
Sean,

I have pondered this very same question for countless hours I wish I had more understanding but this  is what God has allowed me to see so far.

For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope [expectation] 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Paul makes it clear that the creation had no choice in being subjected to “futility” and to “slavery to corruption.” It was done by the sovereign will of God alone. Futility, vanity, or emptiness describe a path that appears to go nowhere and has no purpose. When Adam sinned, his sin was imputed to all mankind. We all became liable for Adam’s sin, and thus we are all mortal, paying for a sin which we did not commit. And not only mankind, but ALL OF CREATION was subjected to this “corruption.”
It is contrary to the divine law for anyone to impute a father’s sin upon the children.

 Deuteronomy 24:16 says:
16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.
This Law is repeated in Ezekiel 18:20, which says:
20 The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
Children were not to be punished for the sins of their father. And yet this is precisely what God did with us. The fact that all of Adam’s children are born mortal proves that we are paying for a sin committed by our father (Romans 5:12). Adam’s children were put to death for the sin of their father Adam. Did God not know that this was unfair? Of course He did! After all, He had prohibited such injustice by His own law, revealed to Moses and confirmed by Ezekiel
 
Imputing death and corruption to mankind and to creation in general has produced a tension that demands resolution. Paul says that God certainly will not leave creation hanging. The disharmony and injustice is only temporary. In fact, Paul says that the injustice that caused the tension will be MORE THAN COMPENSATED when the final chord of history is struck. And so Paul reminds us in Romans 8:18,

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
And again, he says in 2 Corinthians 4:17,
17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,
Paul is reminding us that the injustices of life are not only temporary, but will be more than righted at the last day when He restores all things.

God created His own goal: to create the universe, to allow man to fall into death and sin, and then to reconcile creation with justice and grace. To teach us justice, it was necessary for man to fall into sin. To implement grace, God needed sinners as the objects of grace.

So God created man with the potential to sin, provided man with the opportunity to sin, and then allowed the tempter to provoke the sin. The book of Genesis tells this story without any thought of objection or argument. Yet if we study the divine law as given to Moses, we find some serious moral objections that must be overcome.

Exodus 21:33 and 34 tells us: and there are many more examples like this if you study the laws.

33 And if a man opens a pit, or digs a pit and does not cover it over, and an ox or a donkey falls into it, 34 the owner of the pit shall make restitution; he shall give money to its owner, and the dead animal shall become his.
The owner of the pit is liable even if he did not physically force the ox into the pit. The fact remains that he ALLOWED it to happen by digging the pit and not covering it. He is liable on the grounds that he could have prevented it but did not. He created the OPPORTUNITY for the ox to fall into the pit. And so, the divine law rules that the man who opened the pit is legally liable and must pay restitution to the animal’s owner.

In applying the spirit of this law to Adam’s situation in the garden, God is both the owner of the pit and the owner of the ox (Adam). First, God dug a pit, because he created an opportunity for Adam to sin. God did not cover this pit in that He created Adam with the potential to sin and created a tree of knowledge, putting it within Adam’s reach. God created an opportunity for Adam (the ox) to fall into the pit (sin and death). That made God  liable by His own law.

 The final result is that “the dead animal shall become his.” So God bought the dead ox (Adam and all who died in Adam), and the ox became His. Is not this why Jesus came? He fulfilled the law to the letter, purchasing all who died in Adam

When evil comes upon us, our pride immediately begins to surface. We treat God as though he were unjust. Such an attitude presupposes that we know better than God what justice really is. And so God sends adversity upon us, even to our breaking point, in order that we may obtain a deeper understanding of the justice of God. We learn that His “injustices” are only temporary, and that He knows how to turn these “evils” into good.

Once we really begin to believe this, we enter upon the true life of faith, where we view all our adversaries ultimately as tools of God to train us as His sons and daughters. That is the place of rest, which God invites us to enter today.

It could be said that the death of Jesus was the worst evil ever done in the world. Yet what Christian could doubt that it was also the greatest good? Can there be any doubt that God turned the greatest evil into the greatest good? The crucifixion became the instrument of the salvation of the world.

When men do evil (as defined by the divine law), it is sin to them, because they violate the standard that God has given to men. When God does evil, it is always in accordance with His plan, which is His own standard of measure. Cain and Abel, Issac and Ishmael, Esau and Jaccob in our human understanding it is hard for us to see any fairness in these accounts.  We are not God; we are not always capable of bringing good out of evil, as He is. Our concept of justice and righteousness is warped by the death that resides in our souls. We need, above all, to have faith in Him that He knows what He is doing, and He does all things well.

Universal reconciliation is God’s final solution to the tension in creation brought about by what appear as “temporary injustices” which He Himself instituted. The divine law defines the judicial question by insisting that God take responsibility for all “injustices” that He does or allows to be done. The Biblical account leaves us no alternative but to justify God by universal reconciliation. No other solution is adequate to ease the tension that He imposed upon creation by subjecting all to futility. Only when we recognize this can we resolve the greatest philosophical question ever conceived by man—the origin, purpose, and end of all evil.

God bless,

KennyMac

stego:
Hey Kenny,
    I agree with your post, but it doesn't seem to even attempt to answer my only question as i stated it previously.  Do you have an idea as to how elect getting an age extra life than everybody else is fair, or do you just have faith that it is fair without understanding how?

Sean

hillsbororiver:
Hi Sean,

I am speaking for myself here. I see it as being fair because God is doing it and He is in control, who am I to judge His plan? So the answer for me is He has chosen some to be His own to have a part in bringing all to Him eventually, why some rather than others? I have no clue.

His Peace & Wisdom to you,

Joe

gmik:
Sean, after all the wonderful posts that really do answer your question, you are still hanging on to your idea of whats fair and what isn't.  Be sure that it is not an "idol of your heart." MUCH will be required of the elect, they will not be "living the good life" while everyone else is dead.  Ruling with a rod of Iron doesn't sound easy-but by living their lives in judgement or judging themselves our Lord has deemed them worthy. Don't be jealous or think you have a better plan than God.

(I am probably old enough to be your Granny, so please take this advice as kindly-and I am saying it to myself to)

Love ya,
gena

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