> General Discussions
Question on Sharing UR
PKnowler:
--- Quote from: rocky on December 21, 2006, 10:31:56 PM ---1Ti 4:10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
1Ti 4:11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.
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I have thought of this verse. If we be teaching and charging anything it is that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World. But as someone else has mentioned that can be as simple as showing that God loves people not just the elect but those in the whole world. Amen! We have been given the Ministry of Reconciliation to turn people to Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for the remission of the worlds sin.
Amen!
PKnowler:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on December 22, 2006, 08:33:14 AM ---Here is a portion of http://bible-truths.com/souls.htm (Winning Souls for Jesus?)
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Thanks for sharing the link Hillsbororiver! I have read it before but it was good to read it again. It is hard to overcome old ways of thinking sometime. I have to remind myself and be ever learning. We can't win souls for Christ that is the spirit's work. We are to scatter, tend & water seeds as co laborers. We may get to harvest if that is the Lord's will. Amen!
Thanks for sharing Hillsbororiver!
Blessings, Paula
PKnowler:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---Hi Paula.
You wrote :
I haven't been around for awhile so "hi" ya'll. How ya been? If I could jump on in there with a question. I thought this would be a good place to ask. I have been thinking about some things and I am perplexed. Do you think that we should share our revelation of Universal Salvation with others?
I do not think there is anything wrong with sharing our excitement over what we have been shown as long as it is done without wanting to convert or persuade or brow beat anyone. As long as we do not debate, try to show anyone wrong or try to look, or sound superior.
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That is good advice but hard for me. My default mode is all that you mentioned, debating, showing error, sounding superior, etc., I really need to submit to Christ on these matters. I don't mean to be this way. It started long ago when I was in the SDA church and I had to show people that the sabbath was required. Ha! I've come a long way by the Spirit! Praise God!
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---Should we boldly proclaim it?
Here is where the problem lies with boldy proclaiming anything unless you are David running up to Goliath.
Boldly – Collins English Dictionary. Courageous, confident, and fearless; ready to take on risks.
Courage – the power or quality of dealing with or facing danger, fear, pain etc.
So this is not the way to go according to what the scriputures say…… :)
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I think there is a Holy Boldness that can come over us when we are operating in the spirit. I am not talking about an arrogant forceful spirit. When I asked this I was thinking more of Standing in this truth and letting everyone know and if they want to inquire further they can. (I was thinking of putting it on myspace.)
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---Or keep it to ourselves?
We are told not to hide our light under a bushel. But remember light does not make any sound. It shows up by contrast......
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Good Analogy!
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---Should we only share with Christians so we do not make non-Christians stumble and feel no need for Christ?
If we only share with Christians we do the same whether to pagans or to Christians. Christendom is Mystery Babylon out which we were called to come out.
Or does it even really matter if we share with Christians since they are already saved?
I do not believe anyone is saved. Not until Christ returns Heb 9 : 28 Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, BUT TO BRING TO FULL SALVATION those who are eagerly, constantly, and patiently waiting for and expecting Him.
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God has shown me that there I revealed a lack of faith in asking this question. It is God that draws people and if they are drawn they will come. If they are not being drawn at this time they will not come. As you mentioned it is important for Christians need to hear this message too so they will come out of Mystery Babylon.
You are right no one is saved. We are being saved. (old habit)
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---At what risk should we acknowledge this hope? The loss of friends?
Yes at the loss of friends and family…..and the discovery of new friends and family in Christ.
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I am willing to do all that the Lord would have me do. I just don't want to share a message that I don't believe someone
would be receptive to and alienate people. New friends and family in Christ sounds wonderful!
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---Do you think sharing this info with non-Christians would make them put off accepting Christ?
Decidedly yes if you go boldly. :D No if you are approaching meekly, gently and in the wisdom way and manner of Christ.
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Good answer!
--- Quote from: Arcturus on December 22, 2006, 03:09:46 PM ---Here is an excerpt from LOF Part 15
THE SCRIPTURAL PROCESS OF CONVERSION
The truth of conversion is a simple one, if we believe the Scriptures and don’t try to bring it about by some phantom free will. It is all of God.
How do the Scriptures say we become converted? Does an ounce of "free will" enter into the conversion process according to the Scriptures?
1. "Or despise you the riches of HIS goodness [‘His goodness;’ not our free will] and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God LEADS [God’s ‘leading’ is the CAUSE] you to repentance?" (Rom. 2:4). Where is the ‘free will’ in this statement? "God LEADS…" is the cause of repentance, not free will.
2. "No man CAN come to Me, except the Father which has sent Me draw [Gk: ‘drag’] him: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:44). This verse is plain: "No man CAN…" come to Christ of his own will. It is the Father "dragging" him that is the cause of one coming to Christ, not his own supposed free will.
3. "You have not chosen Me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU…" (John 15:16). "I have CHOSEN you…" is the CAUSE and it is by Christ’s will, not man’s will.
4. "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God [not faith ‘IN’ the Son of God, but the very faith ‘OF’ the Son of God—it is His faith, not ours until He gives us some of it] Who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Gal. 2:20). It is not by the ‘free will’ of our faith that we live, but the by the faith OF Jesus. There is no human free will in all this.
5. "I am the Vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit, for without ME YE CAN DO NOTHING" (John 15:5). According to God’s Word, what is it that we can do by our own will? Answer: "NOTHING." It is Christ "IN him" that brings forth much fruit. Man does not bring forth much fruit by his fabled free will.
6. "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:11). Is this man’s part in his own salvation? Must man confess that Jesus Christ is his Lord by his OWN FREE WILL, or it will have no real meaning? Is that how this confession is made? Answer: "…no man can say [with his fabled free will] that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit" (I Cor. 12). Do we profess Jesus as our Lord by our own will or by the Holy Spirit? "By the Holy Spirit" is the cause. Our own will is not the cause of our calling Jesus, Lord.
7. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [‘that faith’] not of yourselves [NOT of your own faith or will] it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10).
Are we saved through the faith of our own will? NO. Do we do good works by our own will? NO. It is: God’s faith, God’s gift, God’s Workmanship, God’s creating, God’s ordaining. The cause is "His workmanship," not our own will.
I could go on and on like this for a hundred pages. I could go through the entire Bible proving that all is of God, not of man’s will. It is always God; it is never man’s will that is the first cause of all things. Nowhere in the entirety of the Bible is there anything suggesting that man has a "free will." Man’s will is not free. Man has a will, but it is not free from the causes that make it do what it does.
Millions and millions of times it is stated by the clergy that man must live by his "free will" that God gave him. God never goes against our own free will, we are told. Hogwash!
Since God says we cannot obey Him with our natural mind [our own God-given will], and yet we have much Scriptural proof that God does cause men to do what He wants, then we also have proof that God does go against man’s will, and He does it often.
"For it is God [who? ‘GOD’] which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).
According to Christendom, this verse is a fraud. We are taught that, "It is OUR OWN FREE WILL that works IN us both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure." But no, it is God Who works in us both to will and to do. There is no "free moral agency" at work in this verse of God’s Word or anywhere else, for God’s Word does not contradict. These Scriptures I am giving you are so very simple and so very plan, yet, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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Thanks for sharing that from Ray's writing. I have read it before but it has been a while, it is good to refresh my memory and read it again. I appreciate you replying to my questions, Arcturus!
Blessings, Paula
PKnowler:
--- Quote from: kennymac on December 23, 2006, 05:09:41 AM ---Hello Paula,
I agree with Arcturus I believe he has given you sound advice, I would have answered the same. However we are all distinct and unique individuals and for this reason we will all handle situations differently.
As a believer in Jesus Christ, as one who has been transferred from darkness into the light, as one who has been set free from slavery to sin, as one who has experienced the love of the lord, chosen to know the truth.... the good news.... how could I ever contain this hidden treasure??? The Spirit of the Lord is within me, I have been anointed to set the captives free, to bring liberty to the oppressed to give sight to the blind, to share the love of the Lord with a dead and dying world.
I feel it is my responsibility to share the truth, in love with no hidden agenda, to all that I cross paths with, just once. I am also convinced that God has brought me into this wonderful, glorious experience for no other reason than to share the Good News. I have shared this message with all types and no one has ever been offended. I don't get involved in discussing doctrine, the way I live my life speaks for it's self and when the opportunity presents, I simply share my experience not knowledge.... my experience of being awakened and filled with a love and a joy that I never knew apart from Christ.
My life is a miracle no longer one of the many walking dead, I have been given life, a heart of flesh, I have an open line of communication with the Lord, I am complete in Christ. I know, that I know, that I know.... He is who He says He is. How can I meet someone and know that they are void of Christ, dead, incomplete, lost, stumbling through this life and not mention Christ, and what He has done for me? I can not. I am in no way considered a religious fanatic by people who I have crossed paths with. As for my Christian acquaintance's still in Babylon at least I know they have heard the truth, that is comforting to me. As knew believers the 1st thing we do is run to a church were we are fed a bunch of lies. I thank God that I stumbled across Ray's teachings and was able to receive the truth.
I am not trying to win souls for Jesus but everyone who knows me will know of Christ simply because He is a part of me, the best part of me.
I can not bury my treasure, it is so beautiful, so precious, it is the power of God to salvation for all men, a word that gives life to the dead. Again we are all unique individuals with our own style, I love sharing Gods word with others, I feel it is the most loving deed I could ever do for another individual. If I sense they are going to be uptight than I know to redirect the conversation, but that has not been my experience most people like to talk about God and I let them talk about their God and I just keep sharing truths a little here a little there.
I also believe the scriptures reveal that the disciples where certainly sharing the gospel. God is using His people to deliver His message, yes it has all been predetermined everyone will be saved, God is right now speaking through his people we are a part of the plan. I've seen lives healed because I have shared.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
I press forward to obtain the high calling of God, to be a priest of God and reign with Christ. I have always thought that those who are chosen will be revealing Christ, until all have been converted in the ages to come.
God bless,
Kennymac
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Kennymac,
What you shared is so inspirational! I am teared up and I feel the JOY rise within me! It resonates with my spirit! I WANT TO BE LIKE THAT! As you mentioned we are all individuals and handle things differently so there is no right or wrong way as long as it is done in love with meekness of spirit. But I want everyone I know to know the hope that lies within me- the Good News! I'm glad to hear that you have been able to share without offending or trying to convert people. I want to have friends like you! Maybe your zeal
and ability to share would rub off on me. ha ha
Thanks for sharing your experience with me, Kennymac!
May you be blessed!
~Paula
PKnowler:
--- Quote from: mari_et_pere on December 23, 2006, 02:27:00 PM ---
I say this from experience. Our beliefs can cause major division in our personal relationships. My wife believes the more "standard" and mainline teaching of salvation by choice, hell fire, yada yada yada. I tried to tell her what I believe is the truth and a huge argument ensued. For this reason I'll say this: don't force the issue. That's not to say keep quiet, never say it, keep it secret, for that's not what the Word says to do. We're told to proclaim the truth. However, it doesn't say force the issue, fight and argue about it until everyone's angry at each other.
I'd suggest saying it once, or having one discussion about it, then drop it. If they want to know or ask more, they surely will. All of that is in God's hands.
M@tt
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I have the similar situation. My husband is an Orthodox believer and when I have tried to share with him we always in up arguing. I know it is wrong but I just want him to see so badly! Sometimes I think I have found the perfect article or scripture to convince him but the results are always the same. I really just need to lay off. It is not my work it is the God's work to draw him. I am getting better but every once in a while I get excited about a scripture or something and I just have to share. My husband is usually receptive to hearing (some things) he just doesn't want me to try and convince him. Which I shouldn't do anyways.
Thanks for sharing Matt!
Blessings, Paula
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