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Author Topic: Without Form and Void  (Read 3595 times)

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hillsbororiver

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Without Form and Void
« on: January 01, 2007, 04:15:10 PM »

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

John 12:46  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


While reading earlier today I was struck by how similiar the description in Genesis of the creation of the world is to our condition when first called to Him. Full of darkness, void without real purpose, etc.

This is one of those things that isn't earth shattering or ground breaking but I felt was very interesting, it once again underlines that God uses many avenues to get His point across, that the natural world is also part of His Communication with us and also (as Ray likes to say) that the Bible is one giant parable.


His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
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Robin

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2007, 04:41:33 PM »

Wow! I see that also!

There is always something new and wonderful.

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eggi

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2007, 04:56:07 PM »

That makes sense to me, since we are "of the earth".

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7 KJV)

O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD. (Jer 22:29 KJV)


And we are to get dominion over the earth (the flesh) even though we were created on the same day as the beasts:

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Gen 1:25-28 KJV)

Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight? (Job 18:3 KJV)

Nevertheless man [being in] honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. (Psa 49:12 KJV)

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. (Ecc 3:18-20 KJV)


This is something we should study further. I think the Book of Genesis contains a whole lot of clues on our development.
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

Robin

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2007, 04:57:43 PM »

Daniel 2:22
He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

Isaiah 42:16
And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Ephesians 5:8
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Isaiah 50:10-11
10Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
11Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Matthew 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
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M_Oliver

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2007, 06:16:06 PM »

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

John 12:46  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


While reading earlier today I was struck by how similiar the description in Genesis of the creation of the world is to our condition when first called to Him. Full of darkness, void without real purpose, etc.

This is one of those things that isn't earth shattering or ground breaking but I felt was very interesting, it once again underlines that God uses many avenues to get His point across, that the natural world is also part of His Communication with us and also (as Ray likes to say) that the Bible is one giant parable.


His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


Interesting.  I was studying the "creation" days today looking for a parallel to the 7 Spirits of God.  You make a great observation Joe.

Mark

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iris

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 10:49:58 PM »

Ps. 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge.

Ps.33:6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath
of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as a heap; he layeth up the depth
in storehouses. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Ps. 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.
17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Ps. 136:4 To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.


Iris
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2007, 12:13:58 PM »

Dear MG, Eirik, Mark & Iris,

Thank you for your input, what I am seeing here is that like in the beginning when the Lord formed all things and breathed His Breath of life into His creation that it is a type/shadow of when His Spirit is conceived in us and we begin the (spiritual) journey with Him.

Just as Adam was not a"completed creation" in the sense that God ultimately plans spiritual perfection for all, when we come out of the void of darkness and are conceived as spiritual beings our lives (in Him) have just begun. The physical experiences in the OT are the spiritual experiences of His called and chosen. We are the Israelites being spoken of by the Prophets, we have done (and in my case still fall prey to) all the dumb, selfish, ungodly things we are astonished by when we read of the idol worship, betrayel, insincerity, lusts, etc. sinning that OT Israel was/is guilty of. How many of us say, we would not have built a golden calf as Moses was communicating with the Lord. We would not have betrayed Joseph and sold him into slavery, no way we would have slain a man to take his wife, maybe not physically but how often do we do it spiritually?

All the examples of being in bondage to Egypt, Babylon, Persia, etc. are us as we stumble in our journey, broken and contrite we seek Him to make us whole, to sooth our spirit and give us strength, He works these miracles in us and we renew our commitment to Him only to allow ourselves to fall into bondage once again. I know this is His plan and suits His purpose for our growth but like Ray states in his Free Will (and other) papers we go along with these impulses, our hearts are behind these temptations before we submit to them. 

Any and all comments are more than welcome.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


  
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Sorin

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2007, 12:27:57 PM »

Wow, this is very interesting, I never looked at it quite like this before. I'll have to study this further, and read the book of Genesis now, and see what kind of things will jump out at me that I missed before.

Good find Joe, Take care,
Sorin
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sj

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 01:09:35 PM »

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

John 12:46  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


While reading earlier today I was struck by how similiar the description in Genesis of the creation of the world is to our condition when first called to Him. Full of darkness, void without real purpose, etc.

This is one of those things that isn't earth shattering or ground breaking but I felt was very interesting, it once again underlines that God uses many avenues to get His point across, that the natural world is also part of His Communication with us and also (as Ray likes to say) that the Bible is one giant parable.


His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe


A few months after my 20th birthday, I was leaving my home in pensacola to attend a Assembly of God University in Central Florida... before I left my youth pastor asked me to speak at one of our wednesday night youth meetings. I spoke on "Created in God's Image to Stay That Way."

I spoke out of Gen 1:1-3, Gen 3., Jer 4, and John 1.... and discussed the similarities between the creation story and our own experience with God as he changes us into a new creation.

I was still "in Babylon" at the time so my understanding of this topic was skewed, but interestingly enough, as I recall this is where I really begin to question if what the church was teaching was actually scriptural. Perhaps this is a "earth shattering" revelation after all, atleast it was for me.

I saw this post yesterday morning but did not have time to post, I just wanted to share my own experience with these portions of scripture and how they had a tremendous impact on my life and my beliefs.

It's awesome that God is patient enough to spend 3 years with someone to teach them one lesson about how absolutely AMAZING His plan is for us. Thanks Joe for reminding me of this awesome type/shadow and helping me come to a better understanding of what God was saying all along!

God's Peace
Josh
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 01:10:33 PM by swivel »
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joyful1

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2007, 01:53:14 PM »


Joe-
You quoted the following about 'the word that goeth forth'...

Isaiah 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
 
And I've always thought that it is interesting to note that the verse just prior compares 'the word' to 'rain,'....so that "in this way" my word goes out and returns to me....

Isaiah 55:10  For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread
to the eater:

And indeed 'the Word' did come down 'from heaven' and like water, like rain, it returned to heaven....received by 'a cloud.' (*turned to invisible vapour, like water, its still water, just in a different form)

I used to think of that as a literal physical cloud...and indeed there was one seen by men that day...but now that I see the "cloud of witnesses" as the spiritual application here...it makes even better sense!

Jesus came (like the word sent out in Isaiah 55:11) and  ' accomplished that which God pleased'.  I used to think that this 'accomplishment' was the cross....and certainly that was central....and He did say 'It is finished' when the cross was done....but there is one thing that he said just before the ascent;

Matthew 23:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The rain/ God's Word, accomplished a LOT that day! ...Joyce
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Robin

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2007, 04:32:27 AM »

I saw Romans 7. It is the closest I've ever come to understanding it.

I might be way off base, but I think Ray referred to us as the earth. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

We start out void and without form and we are molded into the image of Christ. We start out in darkness and Christ becomes light in us. God divides the light from the darkness.

Romans 7
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Colossians 1:12-14
12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Ephesians 5
7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1
5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Luke 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

1 John 2
8Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 05:00:01 AM by M.G. »
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Without Form and Void
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 10:53:29 AM »

Hello Sorin, Josh, Joyce & MG,

Great input once again!

MG, Ray has explained "the sea" as the unbelieving world, the earth as the called (church) world and heaven as the abode of the elect.

This theme of dividing the light from the darkness and how darkness was the first state of our being and light is a new beginning is throughout scripture. Interesting how the days are seperated in Jewish custom, a day begins at sunset (darkness) rather than sunrise (light).

Thanks again for all the responses.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe   
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