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[Dennis Vogel]

A little mini-article just posted: http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

Dennis

[Sorin]

Thanks Dennis for the link. Always good to see new material. I agree with what Ray is saying there but it's no new revelation to me since I already knew and believed that and thought about it and came to the same conclusion.

Although Ray does a much better job of explaining it and backing it up with scripture than I could have. 

Take care,
Sorin

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Dennis,

  Yeah I just read this.  I had always known these truths but did not have the Scriputural backing.  This has made me feel better.  We should not be scared of death.   That was the last fear that I had to let go.

  Hmmm now if we could work on the fianances.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire

[hebrewroots98]

Ray,
Thanks for putting that into perspective and making it a bit clearer, you articulated that quite well.  I love the part that states "God must put us to sleep and set us aside for awhile so that He can work with our children and their children' (paraphrased); that is soooo tender of God to look at 'death' that way.  What an AWESOME AND BRILLIANT GOD WHO LITERALLY MADE THE DYING PROCESS TO WHERE WE NEVER KNEW THAT WE WERE ACTUALLY DEAD; TO WHERE WE NEVER SKIPPED A BEAT OF CONSCIOUSNESS...AMAZING, LORD!!! 

I think I will make a few copies of this and send it to ones whom I know that are facing this very process as we speak; as it will encourage them.. I can't imagine of not understanding thge death process and having to FEAR death or dying.  How sad indeed, that most people are living their lives by being motivated (even if it is at the subconscious level) by the fear of dying.  I think they tend to dwell on 'how' they will die and then run from facing the reality of 'death' for all of their years.  I can see how satan can use this fear tactic to really hinder ones' peace during one's lifetime...

thanks again Ray! 

[gmik]

Excellent.

What a comfort!

gena

[Deborah-Leigh]

.....and so we are passed from death to life and will not taste death! Oh death....where is thy sting now?....for now we know, see and hear the truth and the truth has set us FREE!

Thank you Ray of Gods light from the heart of Gods love.

Arcturus

[Robin]

That was a very kind gift from Ray. I believe that also and it brings me much comfort.

When my father died I had a lot of grief thinking he was separated from all of us. I thought that must be worse than it was for us. At least we all had each other.

I also went through much grief when I was only 22 and my husband took his own life. I can't tell you how many people walked up to me and told me he went to hell. I searched the scriptures to prove that hell was not the truth and couldn't find the proof on my own. Ray cleared that up for me and I'm very thankful.

[iris]

M.G. I'm sorry you had so much grief.

What kind of person would walk up and say that to someone,

who had just lost a loved one? 


Thanks Dennis for posting the new article.

It really is an encouraging word about death.



Iris

[hebrewroots98]

Oh MG! I am so sorry that you had to suffer at the hands of spiritually ignorant and cruel people who said those awful things to you. :'

I too a (at the age of 22 also) was tormented after my Grandmother, Aunt and cousin died all in a matter of three months; I was a babe in Christ and I was told that 'b/c they were not in the 'denomination' that I was in, then they were going to hell'...(I literally gained 60 pounds over that one-then I lost the weight.  But, they will have to answer one day for what they were teaching to babes!  As it definately made me stumble!)

Sadly, :'This reminds me of a Jewish friend of ours whom died and (I was too immature to know the truth about hell) that I was guilty of telling the widower that I was concerned of her dying without Yeshua!  (Should I go back now and apologize to him or is it too late?  It was about 12 yrs ago.)
"
I once was told by an 'elder' that "there is no hope for you in Heaven Susan, b/c you married a man who has been divorced!!???"

I have known of several people whom have died without acknowledging Jesus as their saviour, and a few whom have taken their own lives as well, and I must say that these deaths bothered  me more than the rest at one time.  (A dear friend of ours took his life a few yrs back and it tore us up) b/c we didn't know the 'no hell' truth. We really did anguish over this hell issue.  We truly didn't know what to think; of course we are releived and understand now that we have been shown BT info.  I'm so thankful that God answered our prayers over this one heart wrenching issue. 

There was no end (in the pious religious world) to the reasons as to why certain people would go to hell!

At least now we can all encourage others with the truth about death, hell, and our new life to come (if they'll take it.)

[Sorin]

That was a very kind gift from Ray. I believe that also and it brings me much comfort.

When my father died I had a lot of grief thinking he was separated from all of us. I thought that must be worse than it was for us. At least we all had each other.

I also went through much grief when I was only 22 and my husband took his own life. I can't tell you how many people walked up to me and told me he went to hell. I searched the scriptures to prove that hell was not the truth and couldn't find the proof on my own. Ray cleared that up for me and I'm very thankful.

Hi M.G.,

They did what?! Oh that's real comforting, how christian of them. *shakes head*
Like those other nutty christians who go to dead soldiers funerals and hold up signs that read 'thank God for dead soldiers, God hates you, you're going to hell' etc...

It's a crazy world full of hatefilled, evil angry people. But their time will come.

Sorin

P.S. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[hebrewroots98]

Sorin, you got that right!  I was just at one of those type funerals here, where two brothers had died over in the Gulf War recently.  It was very sad, but when those self-righteous and hatemongers came out and protested this funeral  using the very sings that you spoke of to picket with...well...lets' just say that they were running for their lives to get into their mini van to get out of there!  Those "Harley Riders For Fallen Soldiers" whom travel all over the country to drown out these picketers didn't see any humor in that!!!  

[moseslmpg]

Sorry for resurrecting a dead thread, but I don't want to clutter the place up.

Anyway, to get to the point: Ray says that the Bible likens death to sleep, where there is no consciousness. But that seems to be reading into it to me. I had pondered using experiences described in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, but considering that reincarnation/rebirth is bad or whatever, I won't. So if death is like sleep, how does that preclude consciousness? When I sleep I frequently have dreams, and there are people who can control their dreams and project their consciousness.

Also, if someone would mind telling me exactly why reincarnation is evil or wrong, I'd appreciate it. I mean, aside from the fact that it comes from "pagan" traditions, because I don't see that as a valid reason considering much of what is in the Bible.

[Kat]

Hi moseslmpg,

I see this is your first post, welcome to the Bible-Truths forum 

Jesus compared death to sleep, because as with sleep we are unconscious which means - experiencing loss of senses: unable to see, hear, or otherwise sense what is going on. 

John 11:11  He said these things; and after that He said to them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps. But I go so that I may awaken him out of sleep.
v. 12  Then His disciples said, Lord, if he sleeps, he will get well.
v. 13  But Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He had spoken of taking rest in sleep.
v. 14  Then Jesus said to them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

But with sleep as you say, you do dream.  But with death there is no mind function, as it says here.

Ecc 9:5  For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,

Here are a few email that Ray has answered concerning death sa sleep and reincarnation.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3747.0.html ----

Dear Lodewyk:
You need to read the material on our site. I spend thousands of hours researching and writing the material for our site. You need to read it. It answers all of your questions in great detail.
 
True, at death one's spirit returns to God, but it has no consciousness whatsoever. The consciousness is in the soul. Man IS a living soul, and when He dies, he is a dead soul. It is neither the soul, nor the body which are said to "sleep" in death, but rather that death itself is called "sleep."  We are not resurrected with the dead body we died in, but are given a new, spiritual body (I Cor. 15:42-54). Read the first five pages of my Critique of Dr. Kennedy's sermon on Africans, and the Part C of my HELL series for detailed information on the body, soul, and spirit.
God be with you,
Ray

http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm#reincarnation ------------

Dear Randy:

It is not a bother for me to answer your questions.

Reincarnation is a doctrine of demons. God changes us into a new creature, a new creation, but this happens to us as the person we are, not a reincarnated different person.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3897.0.html ----

Dear Walter:

No, there is no such thing as human "reincarnation." Reincarnation is an ancient doctrine of the pagan Egyptians. God knew us from before the foundation of the world, not because we existed back then, but because we were IN HIS PLAN. God knew every person who would ever live, and when they would be born, and how long they would live, how they would live, etc., etc., etc.  And He didn't plan for any to perish, but that all will come to repentance and a knowledge of the truth (if not in this life, then in Judgment).

God be with you,
Ray

[indianabob]

Hello new member moseslmpg.

Welcome,

Love to know what lmpg means.

I'm 72 years old and married and live in Northern Indiana.
I'm interested in meeting new people and sharing ideas.

If you would like we can share our religion history and learn a little more about the other person.  Maybe we came from similar backgrounds.

I was raised Presbyterian, then married a Methodist girl.
I served four years in the Air Force and then the Steel Mill.
six years on the police force in a small town of 10,000.
Studied to be an insurance salesmen for Prudential
Worked for a plumbing contractor.
Worked in municipal government for 17 years and later at the U. of Notre Dame
in the Civil Engineering Department and in Radiation Chemistry Research.

Recently retired & devoting my spare time to sharing God's truth with any who are truly interested.  Don't believe in being pushy or going from door to door.
Love to discuss almost anything as long as we don't argue personalities.

Sincerely, Indianabob

[Sorin]

Sorin, you got that right!  I was just at one of those type funerals here, where two brothers had died over in the Gulf War recently.  It was very sad, but when those self-righteous and hatemongers came out and protested this funeral  using the very sings that you spoke of to picket with...well...lets' just say that they were running for their lives to get into their mini van to get out of there!  Those "Harley Riders For Fallen Soldiers" whom travel all over the country to drown out these picketers didn't see any humor in that!!!  

Well, since this thread was resurrected, I just wanted to say: Hooray for those Harley Riders!   
God Bless them!

[hebrewroots98]

Hi Moseslmpg, welcome.  Yes, I also would be interested in knowing what your signature means.  I thik Kat did an excellent job in explaining your questions.  Where do you live?  I hope you find Gods' truths here.

Hello ole buddy Sorin, I haven't talked with you (or everyone else here in quite sometime now...)  Yes, those Harley riders For Fallen soldiers do an amazing job by going around the country and following that group of hatemonging and judgemental picketers' at fallen soldiers' funerals; those riders simply roar up their engines and that drowns out the noises that the picketers are shouting about...

On another note, God has me SOO busy ministering to others lately that there is not much time to be on my favorite site and with my favorite people in the whole wide world (yes, BT).  (Like just last night my nephews xwife passed away at age 42 and she left behind a 17 and a 19 yr old daughters, and one of them called me and I was able to share the NO HELL truths to her and she was sooo comforted; and relieved (and I had shared this with her mama months before she died (last night), and she accepted it, praise God.   THE INFO FOUND HERE IN BT IS NOT JUST HEAD KNOWLEDGE,; THIS INFO iIS ABSOLUTELY ABLE TO ENCOURAGE, HEAL, COMFORT, AND SETS PEOPLE FREE!!!  THE WORDS OF TRUTH FOUND HERE TRULY HELP THOSE WHOM HAVE A HEART TO RECIEVE IT!!!
 
blessings,
Susan

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Susan,

It is always good to hear from you so stay in touch as you are able.

I must say it is inspiring to hear of how the Lord is presently using you to share His Good News to those who are hurting, what a horrible thing to contemplate, a loved one tortured for eternity with no hope of salvation. What a wonderful thing it is that they are hearing the message of hope, giving them some peace through a most difficult time.

Praise God!

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Susan

I can second what Joe says!

My Gran passed away this morning. I am so grateful that finally she is out of her misery. She was a very precious person and suffered terribly in the final years of her life. My dear Cousin in Spain is very unhappy and so I will be sending her Ray's teaching on Death. I too hope it will reach in and comfort hurting wounds of pain and give my Cousin some hope. She resents religion and is quite clueless about the Love and Sovereignty of God.

Peace to you sis!

Arcturus

[Sorin]

Hello Susan, good to see you 'round these neck of the woods.

How did you find out about these Riders? That is a wonderful thing they're doing. Glad they exist.

I understand they {those nutty Christians} have free speech or whatever; and I'm all for free speech. But what they're doing goes beyond freedom of speech, what they're doing is hurting people's emotions when they're most vulnerable. It's truly despicable.
Not to mention those are the same soldiers who sacrificed their lives defending the country so that those morons could even have 'freedom of speech'. Do they think freedom of speech is something that exists everywhere, in every country?

Though sadly, freedom of speech is something that's slowly fading in this country as well....     

I also saw on the news that those nutty christians got sued, and the person suing them won. I'll see if I can find the video on youtube or something.

Enough about that, that was a great thing you did ministering to those who lost loved ones and showing them that there really is no fabled christian hell and that their loved one is not and will not be tormented anywhere for all eternity.

I attended a friend's funeral and got into a debate about 'hell' or lack there of...not to mention the deceased was not a 'follower of christ'
or 'saved' if you will. So according to their own doctrines he would have been burning in hell as the funeral was in session, but of course they wouldn't say that to his mother who was grieving so much they had to give her meds to even stand up. And my sister too, who was his girlfriend.

Every sunday that pastor preaches hell, hell, hell, come to Jesus, avoid hell, blah.... then at the graveyard, he conveniently says {which
I don't mind, but it's against his own doctrines} that they will all be reunited again {in heaven}. And that since Jesus rose, he too will rise. That's fine, except that, that's not what he teaches every sunday. Can you say, contradiction?

Well, I'm done rambling for now.... 

Oh, and welcome Moseslmpg

Take care,

Sorin

[hebrewroots98]

Hi there Joe,
It is always great to hear from you as well.  I have come to the reality that life is hardly ever easy most of the time and that the 'good times' are few and far between; not to sound pessimistic,, just realistic.  But, right now I blessed with preparing for one of those good times; we are having the last night of Hanukkah with some friends whom are interestred in THESE TRUTHS.  (The husband is an athiest.)  

It IS neat in how God is using me Joe, just last hour a woman had called me to get my address (in order to pick up some blankets for a family that does'nt even have heat or blankets; and they lost everything in a house fire this time last year) and we ended up discussing biblical things and now she will be coming by this afternoon and she is eager to 'hear more'.  So we will have some Hanukkah cookies and hot chocolate and discuss some major BIBLE TRUTHS.  ("...Be ready in season and out of season to give an account for the hope that is within us...")  God provides for me to teach those whom HE is dragging unto Himself; thankfully, I do not have to go evangelizing, proselytizing, or missionary 'izing'  anymore(lol) if ya know what I mean.  

There is another person who is a literally a PAID EVANGELIST/missionary in a church. whom we had business with last week.  He had overheard me and my little boy speaking the other day and was SHOCKED that Daniel and I were having an adult conversatino about the HOLY OF HOLIES (in the OT temple at Jerusalem) and this guy wanted to know which church we went to; long story short, he got to talking with Daniel and so Daniel asked me in a whisper if he should tell him about there being 'no hell' and so we spoke about it to this church representative and so now he wants to be ''enlightened' like we are.  Well, he has been reading the BT site for a couple of days now, so, we shall soon see how he is taking hold of the truths, and decide wether or not to study with him one on one.  One word of caution though:  this person seemed to not know anything more that how to argue his doctrine with me and I told him straight up, that we are not going to get along very well if he does that and that I will not tolerate any underhanded manipulations of his trying to convert me back to that religion.  (Alot of Christians have a way of sneaking their agenda in while saying that they are only interested in studying with me; thats' why I sent him to BT's first; to see where his heart really is...know what I mean?

Shalom and Blessings to you too,
Susan