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prodigal son
rocky:
I hear you all, and can and have seen it the same way.
But several things make me wonder, one is the verse i posted on broad is the way to destruction and many go that way (many called, few chosen) and narrow is the way to life (few). The prodigal son took the path to destruction. Secondly, the verse that Jesus says to the elder son,
Luk 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
That to me doesn't sound like the whore, babylon. Why would Jesus say to the whore, all that I have is thine.
The other thing is as Bob pointed out, the prodigal son is like Essau, who sold his inheritance for a bowl of soup. Well in Romans 9, we know that Essau is who is hated, and Jacob is who is loved (for election purpose). Jacob represents the few called and chosen doesn't he?
I also see the LOF is seen as the means to repentance through complete destruction, so again the prod son seems to fit that bill.
But as a lot of you have posted, there is good argument the other way, and I do agree with what Bob wrote about the elder son was prideful, and didn't see his sin (sounds like a pharisee to me), and i find it interesting the elder son is the first born, and we are told the elder is to serve the younger. Essau was the elder son, so maybe the prodigal son shouldn't be looked at as the one who sold his inheritance for a bowl of soup, but there sure is some resemblance; being given the inheritance up front, and wasting it away.
Anyway, thanks for the dialogue, good thots.
rocky:
Here are a few more thoughts on this, the prodigal son seems to me is reflective of those who build their house upon the sand.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand (wasted inheritance??):
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
The prodigal son built his house upon sand, and great was his fall.
Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
But we have the example of those who don't build there house on sand, but on the rock (chosen and faithful)
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not; for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken (chosen and faithful); but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder (prodigal son, house built on sand).
Kat:
I found this in Ray's LoF article 4, thought I would add it.
http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html ----------------------------------------
LOST: Can a person sin, be lost, die, and then be saved? Certainly. Let’s look at one of those parables of Jesus that Christendom thinks are easy to understand little stories, when in fact they don’t even begin to understand. You all know the story contained in the parable of the Prodigal son so I won’t read it all, but let me give you the "truth" of this parable.
God is the "Father" in this parable, and the Prodigal is EVERY SON WHO HAS GONE ASTRAY.
"And when he had spent all ... And when he came to himself ... I will arise and go to my father ... I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight ... And am no more worthy to be called thy son ... But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. And bring hither the fatted calf ... For this my son was DEAD, and is alive again; he was LOST, and is found. And they began to be merry" (Luke 15:14-23).
This man SINNED, he was LOST, and he SPIRITUALLY DIED! Do we ALL spiritually DIE? "AND AS IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN ONCE TO DIE..." But isn’t this speaking of the PHYSICAL death of our bodies? No it is not. The second part of the verse gives us the answer as to which death this is,
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but AFTER this the JUDGMENT" (Heb. 9:27).
Notice that "judgment" comes after this death, and not before. We already learned that JUDGMENT is upon the house of God NOW! Each individual Christian in every generation is judged NOW, in THIS life, BEFORE he physically dies! And so the "death" that all men must partake of before judgment is SPIRITUAL DEATH. Notice:
"And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, STAND before God" (Rev. 20:12).
How pray tell can the physically dead, stand, if they are dead?
So here then is the order of things. The Prodigal Son SINNED, he was LOST, he spiritually DIED, and then? And then he was JUDGED! Where and when was he judged? In the hog pens of a far alien country, that’s where. God had to bring him out of this alien county (Mystery Babylon the Great) with all its "riotous living" (Luke 15:13). And so it was that God JUDGED this Prodigal with the beasts and swine of Babylon until he "came to himself." (Ver. 17). Seems to me that God sent King Nebuchadnezzer into the fields with the beasts to live like a beast, so that he too "came to himself." God has not warned in vain to
"Come out of her [MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH] my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 17:5 & 18:4).
Him that has an ear, let him hear.
And so this Prodigal SINNED, was LOST, and spiritually DIED. Surely he is outside of the realm of salvation now. No, he is in the perfect realm FOR SALVATION. How many millions of times this parable of the Prodigal Son has been read, but how many times has its truth ever been understood and perceived? This prodigal was, according to his father, "DEAD." And it was after his father said that he was "dead" that he welcomed him back, forgave him, exalted him, and rewarded him! Now who says one can’t be saved after death. It is after death that most of humanity will be saved.
May God finally grant you to SEE SOMETHING SPIRITUAL! Parables are NOT literal, that’s why they are called "parables" instead of "history." This parable pictures the carnal mind going the way of the flesh. What are the wages of living a riotous life in the alien land of lustful Babylon? Is it "life and joy in the holy spirit?" I speak as fool. Here is the wages of riotous and carnal living in the hog pens of Babylon: "For the wages of sin is DEATH..." (Rom. 6:23). SPIRITUAL DEATH! What must happen AFTER we spiritually DIE? "JUDGMENT!" The spiritual DEAD must be JUDGED. Does judging CORRECT the spiritually dead sinners? Yes it does. That is what the parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. God’s "ways and means" ALWAYS WORK!
"...For when Thy [God’s] JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
rocky:
Thanks Kat.
Ray quotes a verse
"Come out of her [MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH] my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 17:5 & 18:4).
That is interesting to me. did the prodigal son partake of her sins? or did he come out before partaking of her sins? Did he receive the plagues (destruction)? or did he repent before the plagues?
Seems to me, the called, chosen and faithful come out of babylon, before destruction by plagues.
Also, the Nebechenezer sp? example is helpful. He went the way of destruction in order to come to a point of repentance. He had to have everything stripped of him. He received the plagues.
Thanks again.
Kat:
Hi Rocky,
--- Quote ---That is interesting to me. did the prodigal son partake of her sins? or did he come out before partaking of her sins? Did he receive the plagues (destruction)? or did he repent before the plagues?
Seems to me, the called, chosen and faithful come out of babylon, before destruction by plagues.
--- End quote ---
Yes I do think we partake of her (the church) sins,
when we are there, we are just as blind as they are.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that you may not be partakers of her sins, and that you may not receive of her plagues.
So if we do come out of her (the church), as it says "that you may notreceive of her plagues."
We have this assurance that if Christ is in us, He will protect us from the plagues that come.
Psa 91:14 "Because he holds fast to me in love, I will deliver him; I will protect him, because he knows my name.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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