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Author Topic: prodigal son  (Read 7597 times)

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rocky

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2007, 02:15:01 AM »

Bobf wrote:   I don't have an answer for why he says "thou are ever with me."


Rocky:  maybe something related to this:

Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:



Bob wrote:  

I see what you're saying.  But lets suppose the elder son represents God's elect.

- Do God's elect claim to have never transgressed God's commandments?


Rocky writes:  

Good point, here are a couple scriptures that came to mind

1Jo 1:8  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:10  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But then we have this one too:

1Jo 3:6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.


Bob writes:  

- Will God's elect, who are appointed to judge the world and to bring the world into God's kingdom,  object and complain when God welcomes a repentant sinner?

- Will God's elect refuse to come in and celebrate with God?

- Did God never kill the fatted calf for His elect (as the elder son says)?

The elder son seems to have the qualities of a pharisee who follows the letter of the law but does not know mercy. They do not seem to be the qualities of God's elect, who will be raised like Him.


Rocky writes:  good point again.  I definitely see what you are saying here.  


Appreciate your input.  

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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2007, 02:08:01 PM »

This thread is an example of why it is such a blessing to be here in fellowship with like minded brethren.

As Joe said in another earlier thread….there are three types and two results.

For me the types are categorised as follows:

1 The Elect. Called and chosen. This is the Prodigal son returning home. Faithful to the mission to get home and focused  in this endeavour neither turning left nor right. Faithful to death if necessary to return home to the Father. Psalms 31 : 15 My times are in Your hands; deliver me from the hands of my foes and those who pursue me and persecute me.

2. The called. The unfaithful. Those in the house of Christendom who worshiping the carnal house have no knowledge of the Father. The stay at home son who will be cast out, corrected and then returned to the Father once corrected for his blindness, envy and disagreement with his brother. Luke 13 : 26 Then you will begin to say, We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets. 27 But He will say, I tell you , I do not know where, what household – certainly not Mine you come from; depart from Me, all you wrongdoers.
Matt 8 : 12 While the sons and heirs of the kingdom will be driven out into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.

3. The ones that go by the broad way. The Prodigal son leaving home for the carnal temptations of the world and leaving His first love. Mark 10 : 24 ...Children how hard it is for those who trust, place their confidence, their sense of safety in riches to enter the kingdom of God.

Peace to you all

Arcturus :)






« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 02:13:17 PM by Arcturus »
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2007, 06:03:15 PM »

I wanted to say thank you to all who responded to this thread.  After prayer last night, and pondering more on this this morning, the spirit of Christ in me agrees with what you all have been saying, and I have been looking at this parable wrongly.  I was drawn to this verse this morning:

Mat 9:13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

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bobf

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2007, 11:52:20 PM »

I wanted to say thank you to all who responded to this thread.  After prayer last night, and pondering more on this this morning, the spirit of Christ in me agrees with what you all have been saying, and I have been looking at this parable wrongly.  I was drawn to this verse this morning:

Mat 9:13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

That's cool rocky. I'm familiar with how you've been thinking about this, because I went down the same road on this subject and struggled with it for quite a long time.

The parable of the prodigal son and the narrow gate vs. wide gate is found all throughout scripture.  But so far as I have been able to tell, there is no such thing as one who goes through the narrow gate without going through the wide gate first.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, I'd like someone to point out how & why.

Here is an OT passage where I saw the same pattern as the parable of the prodigal son.

Notice the subject: The REDEEMED OF THE LORD.

Psalms 107:1 O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. 2  Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;

God has to GATHER them.

Psalm 107:3  And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.

Because they went their own way and were scattered and in distress.

Psalms 107:4 They wandered in the wilderness in a solitary way; they found no city to dwell in. 5  Hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted in them.

From inside trouble, they return to the Lord and cry out in faith and God delivers them.

Psalms 107:6  Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distresses.

And leads them home.

Psalms 107:7 And he led them forth by the right way, that they might go to a city of habitation.

Praise God!

Psalms 107:8  Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men.

The rest of the Psalm repeats this same parable about five times over in different ways.

Arcturus summed it up nicely. The prodigal son leaving home is entering the wide gate. The prodigal son returning home is the elect entering the narrow gate.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 12:31:04 AM by bobf »
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2007, 01:08:01 AM »





I enjoyed the Psalm you added Bobf 8)

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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vic

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2007, 10:02:18 AM »

Hello All,

Seems you have all raised many questions but are left with many answers without  some one putting them all together and really nailing a conclusion.

Has the   parable the prodigal ( or a  bettered translation is "lost") son whetted your appetites.?  If you want to get a better pespective on the whole  teaching and get a few more straight answers, why not study all 42 Chapters of Job.

You could say Job started out as the son who stayed at home, but became the "lost" son who found the Lord. He had  a fate and terrible trial  fart worse than just feeding the pigs.

I think  Job was called and chosen and is on of the elect.

 Job 2:3   And the Lord said unto satan, Have you considered my servant Job, here is none like him in he earth, as perfect and upright man, one that escheweth evil? and still holdss

fast his integrity, though you move against him, to destroy him without cause.

Vic.

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rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2007, 10:26:27 AM »

Vic,

  Job is a wonderful book.   I have not read it all, but becuase it has come up so much on the forum I am going to read it.  I thought in the first chapter, God said to Satan In all the earth is there NO ONE like Job?  Guys was he ever lost?  Or are you referring to him being lost becuase he went through the trials?

  Job is a very confusing book for me, I am trying to nail down the basic books of the bible first.  I have not been a believer and follower of Christ for a long time in my life and am learning some of this for the first time.  I have believed for about 4-5 years now.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: prodigal son
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2007, 10:46:18 AM »


Hi Vic,

No one could receive salvation before Christ came.
Here is an email of Ray's that makes this point.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,839.0.html -----------------------

Dear Dave:

Your teachings are neither spiritual, nor logical, nor Scriptural. Perhaps you should study your bible a little more.

What did any of the ancient patriarchs know of "saving grace?"  Answer:  Nothing!  And why is that? Because: "For the LAW was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ"  (John 1:18).  Grace did not come before Christ, hence: No one was saved before Christ.  "These ALL died in faith [how many? 'ALL.'] in faith [did they all have faith? Yes.  Are we 'saved by faith?'  NO--'By  GRACE ye are saved....' Eph. 2:8.  Did they nonetheless receive the promise of immortal life?  NO....] NOT having received the promises..." (Heb. 11:13).

Could not the Patriarchs receive salvation through the faith that they had BEFORE Jesus came to die for their sins?  NO.  No Patriarch will be saved except through God's chosen elect: "And these ALL [how many? 'ALL'] having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT THE PROMISES: God having provided some better thing for US, that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect [Gk: 'complete.']"  (Heb. 11:13 & 39-40).

Well then, if their faith and good report did not and cannot make them 'complete,' pray what can make them 'complete?'  Answer:  "And ye ['ye' believers in Jesus, not those who knew not Jesus and did not have Jesus live in them, and who were not 'crucified with Christ,' etc., etc., etc.]...and ye are COMPLETE [how?] IN  H-I-M  [JESUS]"  (Col. 2:10), etc., etc., etc.

Sometimes, Dave, it is also good to have a 'teacher' to help you understand the things that you miss by studying on your own.

God be with you,

Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat



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