prodigal son

[DWIGHT]

I always thought this parable was about people like me.  My only problem is that I've been a prodical son several times.  You just wonder how many chances God gives you.  I may be wrong, but I feel like this is my last shot.  The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.  I don't know what brought me out of that pigpen; if it was His love or because I feared Him.  I pray to God everyday that He'll never let me fall again.  Is it just me or have any of you had these experiences too?  I know that God is in control of everything and that nothing slips by Him, but just like this parable, one brother is with Him always and the other brother was such a failure that he did'nt even feel like a son anymore.  I have felt like that so many times I can't tell you. 

You know, even Ray talks about how few will really be chosen, I mean two million came out of Egypt and only two made it into the promise land.  The Lord said on many occaisions that only a few will be chosen.  Are we at the mercy of  the Lord or what?  When you realize that you can't even take a breath without Him or do anything without Him is so humbling.  And the closer we get to Him, the more we feel so helpless.  This parable has been such a merciful blessing to me that when ever I read it I just cry.

I love you all in Him,

Dwight

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Dwight,

  I have felt that way many times.

  We are always at the mercy of the Lord.  I love that.  It makes me feel great that I can do nothing to thwart the Will of God.  That takes so much pressure off my back to where I can be like the brother who came home after spending some not so quality time with the pigs.  It allows me to experience grace and the Father's love in a new way.

  Truly his banner over us is love.  What a mighty and awesome God we serve.

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire

[longhorn]

My Dad ask me how many times am I going to be the prodigal son.  I have had quite a few "Do Overs"

Longhorn

[Sorin]

Are you sure the elder son was faithful?  He SAYS he was faithful.  In fact, he claims to NEVER have sinned:

Luke 15:29  And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends.

But what does Christ say about those who think they have no sin?

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Look at the elder son's attitude:

Luke 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

Compare how the pharisees and the elder son complained about accepting and eating with sinners.

Matthew 9:10  And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Luke 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

I don't think the elder son is elect at all.

Exactly! The elder son is the self-righteous -holier- than- though- modern-day- pharisee- christian who sees no need to repent [since he 'sinned not'] and or forgive but rather to judge and condemn.

That's how I see this.

Take care,
Sorin

[hillsbororiver]

I always thought this parable was about people like me.  My only problem is that I've been a prodical son several times.  You just wonder how many chances God gives you.  I may be wrong, but I feel like this is my last shot. 

Hello Dwight,

We are all prone to fall, repent and ask Him to lift us up again and again. This is the purging of our carnal nature, the things we once loved we begin to hate, we despise being in bondage to our baser desires but are powerless to overcome them without His Spirit within us giving us the strength.

I know the torment of continual failure and weakness, the following verses are a few of the many scriptures that give comfort in times like this. 

Pro 24:16  For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Mat 18:21  Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? till seven times?

Mat 18:22  Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Luk 17:3  Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk 17:4  And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.


Look at how we are admonished to forgive our brethren, does the Lord expect more from us than He is willing to give? We all know the answer to that.

Job 4:17  Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe 

[rocky]

I have always thot of the prodigal son as representing the elect, those shown mercy rather than hardening, vessel of honor rather than dishonor. 

If this is the case, then who does the older son represent.  I've always thot of the older son as representing the many called. 

But then i read this verse regarding the older son,

Luk 15:31 "Now he said to him, 'Child, you are always with me, and all mine is yours.

Luk 15:32 Yet we must be merry and rejoice, seeing that this your brother was dead and revives, and was lost and was found.'"

Kinda of strange that the older son had full inheritance (all mine in yours), yet never went the route of destruction. 

So this makes me think that maybe the prodigal son represents the called, and  those who go by the broad road to destrction (Lake of Fire). 

any thoughts??

The verse that you underlined has always thrown a bit of a wrench into my view of the parable, which seems to be the same as yours.  That is, if the stay at home son represents the called, the one who will be cast into outer darkness, the one who will be weeping and gnashing hist teeth, looking at the kingdom from the outside, then why does his father tell him "you are always with me, and all that I have is yours?"

First of all, the stay at home son has to represent the many called who will not be in the kingdom, because it harmonizes with all of the other parables such as the 99 sheep, the faithful and wicked servants, the house on the sand or the rock, the rich man and Lazarus, and so forth.

There is only good one answer that I can surmise as to why the stay at home son is told that.

Ezekiel 14
4 Therefore speak to them and tell them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When any Israelite sets up idols in his heart and puts a wicked stumbling block before his face and then goes to a prophet, I the LORD will answer him myself in keeping with his great idolatry.

2 Thessalonians 2
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

That's the best I can come up with.  In this parable, Jesus is showing us how God will answer the called according to the idols that they have in their heart so that they remain complacent, because of their carnality and stubborness.

That could also be why in the parable of the wedding banquet, the man is speechless when he is asked why he is not wearing wedding clothes.  Because, due the idols in his own heart, he was given over into thinkingthat  he was on the narrow path to life, when in fact he was on the path to destruction.

I found this interesting this morning, by faith we are children of God.  The inheritance is ours. 

Gal 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

or another translation (NLT)

7 Now you are no longer a slave but God's own child.* And since you are his child, everything he has belongs to you.

this sounds similar to the verse re: the elder son in Matthew, everything I have is yours. 

Both sons started out with the inheritancde (Christ), one waisted it (sounds like the foolish Galatians, reverting badk to self righteousness through law abiding), and one by faith stayed close to the father.  One a martha, and one a mary. 

Excellent points from all parties.  And either way, like a post earlier said, we're missing the big picture of God's love.  To me, one is through destruction/LOF, waisting Christ through law abiding; and one by faith.  Either way all will confess Christ is LORD.

[Slim]

I used to feel that this was unfair to the older son. I no longer do. I used to be like the older son in one way. I thought I was righteous. But I was not. I was proud and should have been ashamed. I was jealous and should have been grateful. The older son is very righteous. He acts like he is a perfect son without flaws. He resents the celebration the younger son gets because he is jealous. He should have been glad his brother returned and was not. His heart was NOT filled with love. The younger son came back humbled with a heart filled with love for his father and family. It is a journey we all take. For those of you who are righteous, I feel sorry for you. You are not. I am filled with joy that the prodigal son came back. He is me and he is every man and women. We all stray and we all sin. Thanks and praise be to Jesus, we are forgiven. We are all welcome back into the loving arms of God but we must be humbled before we "want" to return. That was the true miracle in the story. The prodigal son suddenly "wanted" to go back. His heart was changed. The older son had a hardened heart judging by his lack of rejoicing for his reunion with his long lost brother. That is my 2 cents for what it is worth.

[Kat]

I can see a parallel between the story of the prodigal son and with the story of Joseph.
Joseph was living a good life with his Father, as was the younger brother with his father.
Both left there father, the circumstances were different, but they both ended up in a far off land, and they were dealing with a lot of trails and difficulties.
As the younger son 'came to himself' he went to his father, sounds like us coming to our senses, when God dragged us to Him. 
In Joseph's story his father sent his brothers unknowingly, to seek help from their brother.  It was a very difficult thing for them to except Joseph as being their ruler.  There could be seen a parallel there as to the church most certainly will not want the elect to rule over them.

Now the older brother was complaining about what the Father had given the younger son.

Luk 15:31  And he said to him, Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours.

If you notice, this is after the younger son had returned home and was received back unto the father, maybe this is a parallel to the reward of the first resurrection.
So this seems like to me the older brother is not happy about what he received.
It is the same as in the parable of the workers in the vineyard.

Mat 20:10  Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius.
Mat 20:11  And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house,

This unwillingness to forgive what we see as faults of others is also shown in the parable of the unmerciful servant.

Mat 18:32  Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
Mat 18:33  And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?'
Mat 18:34  And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt.
Mat 18:35  So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

I think all of these parables are showing the same thing, that the Father will reward as He sees fit,
And nobody should be bothered or jealous, because it is the Father who rewards as He so chooses.

mercy, peace,a nd love
Kat

[DWIGHT]

Hello Joe and Slim,

I want to thank you both for your words of understanding.  How wonderful that God's forgiveness has no bounds or limits.  I just feel so unworthy as I know you both do too.  Slim, especially now, knowing about your cancer must really put this into perspective.  Brothers, our lives are so short like a vapour and then is gone so quickly.  So what that we know all the doctrines and have all the knowledge that we can show the world our self-taught wisdom, without His love and mercy we are nothing.  I thank God that He led me to you because quite frankly, I can't go on alone anymore.  I need the body of Christ.  I need your fellowship.....I need you!

Your brother,

Dwight,

[ciy]

Someone may have said this, but the older son seems to represent the jewish people (jews by the flesh) and the prodigal represents the gentile people who went away but came to the knowledge of his father through experience.  He who is first will be last.  The jew in the flesh always had the opportunity but since he did not take it the prodigal son was grafted in.  The older son respected his father out of his father's position and the prodigal respected his father out of love.

CIY

[gmik]

Dwight, sometimes I get a little jealous of the fellowship that real live believers have, but ya know I love this forum, Ray, Mods, posters, lurkers who ever.  I feel a connection here.  Dwight, you have a home fellowship group right here!!  Cyberspace is kinda like the spirit world now, anyway!!

Please don't think better of any of us-we are all human and seems like we mess up a lot!!
I have found nothing but love & acceptance here.

love ya,
gena

[iris]

Thats the way I feel too gena.

If i feel down or if I'm having a really bad day,

I come to the forum and I get to feeling better,

because there is so much love here.


Iris

[rrammfcitktturjsp]

Gena and Iris,

  I come to the forum first thing every morning and that is the last thing I do before going to bed.  I also do it several times during the day. It is the love and fellowship as well as the openess to discuss with eachother questions of the faith.  I love it.  I can be ME and not be condemned for it or have to walk on the proverbial egg shells.  Yeah.   

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire

[rocky]

I find this in support of the elder son being the elect: 

Here to the elder son, this is quoted:

Luk 15:31   And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.


And here to the chosen, Jesus quotes this:

Jhn 17:9   I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 

Jhn 17:10   And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 



I also find it interesting that everyone who believes in Him won't perish (be destroyed) but have life eternal

and the prodigal son did perish (be destroyed). 


Still studying this. 

God bless. 

[bobf]

I also find it interesting that everyone who believes in Him won't perish (be destroyed) but have life eternal and the prodigal son did perish (be destroyed). 

Everyone who believes in Christ won't perish, but that is different from saying that everyone who believes in Christ never perished.

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Both underlined words are apollumi [destroyed, lost, perished]

The sheep that went astray WAS perished. And yet Jesus also says that it is not the Father's will that that sheep SHOULD perish. Likewise, the prodigal son DID perish and yet once he returned he WON'T perish.

The elder son is like the 99 sheep who "never went astray". Is there any such sheep?

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Notice below it says Jesus is not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Is Jesus really saying that some are truly "whole" and "righteous"?  No, he's talking about those who THINK they are whole & righteous, like the pharisees. Jesus came to call the sinners (prodigal sons) to repentance, not the righteous (remember the elder son claimed to be righteous).

As far as "all that is mine is thine" it may be similar to Israel according to the flesh being entrusted with the things of God.

Romaans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Romans 3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.

That's how I see it anyway.

You might want to read Psalm 107.  I think it gives the "pattern" for the "redeemed of the Lord".

God bless

[rocky]

I also find it interesting that everyone who believes in Him won't perish (be destroyed) but have life eternal and the prodigal son did perish (be destroyed). 

Everyone who believes in Christ won't perish, but that is different from saying that everyone who believes in Christ never perished.

Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Both underlined words are apollumi [destroyed, lost, perished]

The sheep that went astray WAS perished. And yet Jesus also says that it is not the Father's will that that sheep SHOULD perish. Likewise, the prodigal son DID perish and yet once he returned he WON'T perish.

The elder son is like the 99 sheep who "never went astray". Is there any such sheep?

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Notice below it says Jesus is not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13  But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Is Jesus really saying that some are truly "whole" and "righteous"?  No, he's talking about those who THINK they are whole & righteous, like the pharisees. Jesus came to call the sinners (prodigal sons) to repentance, not the righteous (remember the elder son claimed to be righteous).

As far as "all that is mine is thine" it may be similar to Israel according to the flesh being entrusted with the things of God.

Romaans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Romans 3  For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.

That's how I see it anyway.

You might want to read Psalm 107.  I think it gives the "pattern" for the "redeemed of the Lord".

God bless

i fully understand your post, and i'm not saying i don't see it too, but what about the verse above in my post.  Why would the father say this to the elder son. 


Luk 15:31   And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.


And here to the chosen, Jesus quotes this:

Jhn 17:10   And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 


These verses make me think. 


(oops, just fully read all of your post Bob re: the verses above, i'll look more into that.  thanks)


Also,

I also think it is interesting that both sons were already given their inheritance (past tense), before the prodigal son went out and waisted it on worldly pleasures.  This would make me think that both at one time had repented, recieved the inheritance; and then one went and turned back to the world.  One seeked his own life and lost it (lost his inheritance, the prodigal son) and one didn't waist his inheritance.]


Seems like to me the prod. son was this guy

1Co 5:5  To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


One last thing i think of, isn't the LOF also to bring one to repentance, to humble one. 

Thanks Bob for the scriptures, and as I said; i can see it both ways. 
 

[rocky]

I have a question about this verse, hope some will help me here.

Mat 21:44  And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

I see the ground to powder, as those in LOF, and the chosen those who by his mercy have fallen on Christ, not having to go through the severeness of LOF. 


My guess is, most here see this as the opposite, that the elect are the one's ground to powder. 

But then who is the one's broken??

[bobf]

i fully understand your post, and i'm not saying i don't see it too, but what about the verse above in my post.  Why would the father say this to the elder son.... 

Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

I gave one possibility for "all that I have is thine."  I don't have an answer for why he says "thou are ever with me."

I also think it is interesting that both sons were already given their inheritance (past tense), before the prodigal son went out and waisted it on worldly pleasures. This would make me think that both at one time had repented, recieved the inheritance; and then one went and turned back to the world.  One seeked his own life and lost it (lost his inheritance, the prodigal son) and one didn't waist his inheritance.

I see what you're saying.  But lets suppose the elder son represents God's elect.
- Do God's elect claim to have never transgressed God's commandments?
- Will God's elect, who are appointed to judge the world and to bring the world into God's kingdom,  object and complain when God welcomes a repentant sinner?
- Will God's elect refuse to come in and celebrate with God?
- Did God never kill the fatted calf for His elect (as the elder son says)?

The elder son seems to have the qualities of a pharisee who follows the letter of the law but does not know mercy. They do not seem to be the qualities of God's elect, who will be raised like Him.

One last thing i think of, isn't the LOF also to bring one to repentance, to humble one.

Yeah, that's how I see it.

[hebrewroots98]

Rocky,
I see it as you see it; the elect are the ones that are willingly and humbly falling at the feet of Jesus with a broken and contrite heart; while Jesus is the one whom must and will fall onto the 'non elect' with the intention of purging the sin out of them- probably against their 'will', whereas they must be crushed and ground to powder for HIM to start all over with molding their hearts and minds since they didn't or weren't willing to do it on their own.  (I may be wrong here, but, this will be interesting to see what the others perceive. )

[bobf]

I have a question about this verse, hope some will help me here.

Mat 21:44  And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

I see the ground to powder, as those in LOF, and the chosen those who by his mercy have fallen on Christ, not having to go through the severeness of LOF. 

My guess is, most here see this as the opposite, that the elect are the one's ground to powder. 

I used to see it 100% the way you see it: ground-to-powder=LOF.  But yeah, now I see it the other way: ground-to-power=beast slain.

But then who is the one's broken??

The one who stumbles at the stumbling stone.

Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.