Resurrected Body

[Kat]

 Christ's death
« on: Today at 02:43:17 PM » 

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Hi Ray,
I must appreciate your effort in trying  to let the truth be known to all in plain terms.
I only want to ask a question about the death of Christ.
When Christ died, he remained in the heart of the earth for three nights and three days.What happened to his body after he resurrected?


Dear Kenny:
He took it with Him. The tomb was empty when He was resurrected.
He appeared IN IT on one occasion (John 20:26-28).
At other times He appeared in "another form" (Mark 16:123).
God be with you,
Ray
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In today's emails to Ray, was this email, and I have been looking at scripture of His appearing to the disciples.  I am trying to get a idea, as to what it will be like in the resurrection.

The scripture about Jesus appearing after His resurrection, 
shows that He appeared to them in ways that they did not recognize Him.
This was His resurrected body that they saw, and maybe this is a glimpse of what our resurrected body will be like.

1John 3:2  Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is.

Acts 1:3  To them He presented Himself alive after His suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

1Cor 15:5  and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
v.6  Then He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time,  most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
v.7  Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 

John 20:1  Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.
John 20:14  Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus.

Mark 16:12  After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country.

Luke 24:13  That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem,
v.14  and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened.
v.15  While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus Himself drew near and went with them.
v.16  But their eyes were kept from recognizing Him.

In John 20 Mary did not recognize Jesus, and in Luke 24, it says their eyes were kept from recognizing Him, these could be understood as they did not notice or Jesus just shut their eyes from realizing it was Him.  But in Mark it says that Jesus appears in another form.  These words-- another
G2087
heteros
Thayer Definition:
1) the other, another, other

form
G3444
morphē
Thayer Definition:
1) the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision
2) external appearance

So Jesus was obviously able to take on a different appearance, I can understand this because He does have all power.  But this makes me wonder what we will be like in the resurrection.

Luke 24:36  As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!"
v.37  But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit.
v.38  And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
v.39  See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
v.40  And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
v.41  And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?"
v.42  They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
v.43  and he took it and ate before them.

This passage in Luke is interesting because He actually tells them that He is in the flesh,
and eats something to prove that He is flesh and not a Spirit.  I think I had believed our resurrected body would be a spirit body 
Maybe it can be both ways, as need be?

I was wondering what others understand about the resurrected body?

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[YellowStone]

Kat wrote & asked:

This passage in Luke is interesting because He actually tells them that He is in the flesh,
and eats something to prove that He is flesh and not a Spirit.  I think I had believed our resurrected body would be a spirit body 
Maybe it can be both ways, as need be?

I was wondering what others understand about the resurrected body?
[/color][/b]

Kat, I have always wondered the same things myself. I can honestly say I have no answer for you, but can offer some further insigght.

Isa 65:17

• For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

2Pe 3:13

• Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Seems to me that the new Heavens will be home for the spiritual; but what then of the new Earth? In my limited understanding and of the Scripture that you provided Kat We made still have use for a fleshly body. Here's why I say that. God made a perfect Earth. It was Perfect, no question about it; however, since the fall of Adam it can only be a shadow of what it was. If the old sin ridden earth is to be destroyed then surely it will abound in such beauty, smells, sounds, sights, etc that we simply cannot yet imagine. I do not believe for a moment that "new" earth will be devoid of people.

I will throw this in as it was a wonderful series. What about the concept of: "Touched By an Angel" Here angels clearly had fleshly bodies and enjoyed God's creation, even the simple things like Monica and her coffee.

I cannot say what will happen, but I know it will be wonderful, for how could it be not!

Great post,

Love,
Darren

[John]

I always thought it was strange that Jesus closest companions could not recognize Him after 3 days of separation, what? How is that possible? They walked, talked and lived with Him long enough that they should have easily known Him after three days, unless He did not look the same. Had it not been for the holes in His hands and feet some probably would still not have believed. Is it possible that the resurrected body looks different than the body that was laid to rest?



1Corinthians 15:35-38

35.  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36.  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37.  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38.  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Peace,
John

[Slim]

I have been complating the issue of Jesus appearing on several occassions after his resurrection and appearing in a different body. The Apostles knew it was him even though he looked different. Same with Mary once. I am thinking there is a deeper message in this. It kind of ties in to the fact there are no physical descriptions of how he looked. Why? I believe it reinforces the notion of not judging a book by it's cover. Not putting importance on fleshly  appearance. NOT. It also shows me the way to see him. I see Jesus not by what he looked like but by what he said and did. And in the end that is the way I think we all will be remembered, not by appearance. It is a message to ignore the way the flesh looks. It is not useful in the end. Maybe there is a whole lot more than this and I missed it. Anyway that is my take on multiple appearances. I mean he did it on purpose and he could have looked the same and chose not to. In regards to what our bodies will or not be like after our resurrection I think that is one mystery I will gladly share with you.....later......after I have passed.

[gmik]

Slim, not anytime soon!!!
gena

[kennymac]

Hi Kat,

I think you are correct in saying, Maybe it can be both ways, as need be? I think in the next age those who are chosen will have access into both realms.

  Is the resurrected body physical or spiritual? The answer must be both.  He had a heavenly Father and an earthly mother, and the resurrected body was the culmination of that relationship. He could enter the spiritual dimension ("heaven") or the physical, earthly dimension at will. His Father had given Him all authority in BOTH realms, even as He said in Matt. 28:18

18 . . . All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

As a result, He could take a physical form where the disciples could touch Him and see the wounds of His crucifixion (John 20:27). He could also eat food with the disciples (John 21:13; Luke 24:43). Then He could vanish (Luke 24:31) just as suddenly by taking spirit form. The question of whether Jesus was merely a spirit or if He had physical characteristics is answered in Luke 24:36-43. As you have already quoted in your post.

Jesus went out of His way to prove to them that He was not a spirit and that he had "flesh and bones." He showed the disciples His physical scars, which no spirit would have. Then He asked for something to eat.

Many talk of the fact that Jesus was flesh and bones and did not speak of having blood, while true, Luke was focused on a greater truth Jesus was raised a physical body.

This is not to say that Jesus was limited by His flesh to the physical world. The marvel of the moment was that Jesus, though physical, could move just as freely in the spiritual dimension as well. He was not confined to the spirit world, nor was He limited to the physical world. He had free access to both. He had all authority in both heaven and earth, the spiritual and the physical realms.

      Jesus said to the Samaritan woman in John 4:24,

24 God is Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

It seems that the Father has limited Himself to the realm of the spiritual world. Humanity is likewise generally limited to the physical world. But Jesus is the Mediator, the Bridge between heaven and earth. More than that, He is our resurrection Pattern, our Example, by which we can know our destiny as well. What He is, we are becoming, for He is our Forerunner.

Jesus is limited by neither the spiritual world nor the physical world. He has all authority in BOTH realms. And so, even though we do not know very much about the nature of the resurrected body, the Bible makes these essentials very clear, because the nature of His resurrected body has become the pattern for our own resurrected body.

Kat, take a look at these scriptures, I think but I could be totally wrong, that they are prophetic of the new priesthood, in the age to come.

We are told in Ezekiel 44:10-14 that the "idolatrous priests" would be limited to the "outer court" in ministering to men.

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.  11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge of the house and ministering to the house; they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.  12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.  13 And they shall NOT come near unto Me to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things in the most holy place; but they shall bear their shame and their abominations which they have committed.  14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.

While Ezekiel seemed to speak of the time of an earthly temple being built, complete with sacrifices, it can't be. God does not plan to revert back to an Old Testament sacrificial system with Levitical priests in a physical temple. Jesus has already made the full and final sacrifice for sin.

      In this "temple," Ezekiel tells us, the idolatrous Levites will be allowed to minister to the house and to the people in the "outer court." One might think that idol worshippers would be unbelievers, and that God would not allow them access to this temple at all. However, the fact that God allows them to minister to the people in the outer court of His temple shows that these are believers with heart idolatry. Their priorities are wrong. Perhaps their love of money has caused them to set aside the divine law against fraudulently extracting money from their congregations. Perhaps they love the Church more than they love God and are willing to sacrifice their relationship with God in order to maintain their membership or position in the Church.

There are many ways for a believer to harbor heart idols. They are Christians, but they are not of God's elect, the Melchizedek Order. The Bible here makes a clear distinction between these two groups.

These idolatrous Levites are allowed to minister to men in the fleshly body—the outer court. In one sense, we are the temple of God. The temple had an outer court (body), a holy place (soul), and a holy of holies (spirit).It seems Ezekiel is telling us that these carnal, leavened Christians will be allowed to do the work of God in that day, but they will be limited to the fleshly body. They will not inherit the first resurrection, nor will they be endowed with the fullness of God's Spirit at that time. They wii probably have to await the 2nd resurrection.

      Ezekiel goes on to tell us of the other priests, the "sons of Zadok" (Melchi-zedek Order) who will be allowed to minister to God in the inner sanctuary (spiritual realm; heaven) as well as to the people in the other court (earthly realm in a physical body). Ezekiel 44 continues,

15 But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood, declares the Lord God.  16 They shall enter My sanctuary; they shall come near to my table to minister to Me and keep My charge. 17 And it shall be that when they enter at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and wool shall not be on them while they are ministering in the gates of the inner court and in the house. 18 Linen turbans shall be on their heads, and linen undergarments shall be on their loins; they shall not gird themselves with anything which makes them sweat. 19 And when they go out into the outer court, into the outer court of the people, they shall PUT OFF their garments in which they have been ministering and lay them in the holy chambers; then they shall put on OTHER GARMENTS [woolen] that they may not transmit holiness [perfection and immortality] to the people with their [linen] garments.

It seems like Ezekiel is telling us these priests will move between both realms.

God bless
Kennymac

 
















 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Kennymac

To add : Matt 11:11 Truly I tell you, among thos born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is LEAST (there is a least) in the Kingdom of heaven is GREATER ( there is a greater) than He.

As I understand this.....in the end God willl be all in all. Until then we know that there are the called, the chosen and the many who go by the broadside to perdition. I believe the Elect will inherit the likeness of the Spiritual body of Christ. The called will be in the bodies we will recognise as Moses and Abraham who we will be able to sit down with. They will be the appointed Government of God on Earth. The others will be those who are to be ruled until unto righteousness all can be returned by Christ back to God.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Kennymac,

Your post was very well put together, your explanation made it understandable.

The marvel of the moment was that Jesus, though physical, could move just as freely in the spiritual dimension as well. He was not confined to the spirit world, nor was He limited to the physical world. He had free access to both. He had all authority in both heaven and earth, the spiritual and the physical realms.

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

I think this is the key scripture, He has all authority and therefore moves freely through heaven and the earth, in physical form as He so chooses.

As you pointed out the scripture in Eze. 44, this seems like to me it may be referring to the elect, and how it will be after the resurrection.

Eze 44:19  And when they go out into the outer court to the people, they shall put off the garments in which they have been ministering and lay them in the holy chambers. And they shall put on other garments, lest they communicate holiness to the people with their garments.

If the garments are the spiritual or physical forms, then it would be referring to putting on the physical form when among the physical people, still on earth.

As you mentioned Arturus, I too think that the many called will be those people the elect will rule over, on this earth.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

I believe there are two parts to the Kingdom of God that Christ comes to rule. Heaven and Earth.

Eph 1  10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in Heaven and on earth, even in Him.

The first part is spiritual and the second is on the earth and is visible and seen.  Jesus said we will see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God.  Won't these prophets be under direction of the unseen spiritual members of the same Kingdom as they  represent of the heavenly kingdom on the earth and rule accordingly? Wouldn't these appointed rulers over Earth receive the recognition of their Spiritual representation, authority and power from Christ in Spirit over Heaven and the Earth? I think so.


All others who have fallen short of this glory will be trained in righteousness until all are brought into the knowledge of God and Christ. Then God can be all in all after Christ submits everything including Himself back to God. To know God is to love God. To love God is to know Him. There can be no love without HIM and no knowledge without His Son who reveals Him.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Kat]

Hi Arcturus,

I am trying to get this straightened out in my mind, as to how it all works together in the kingdom.
You said-

I believe there are two parts to the Kingdom of God that Christ comes to rule. Heaven and Earth.

Jesus said we will see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the Kingdom of God.  Won't these prophets be under direction of the unseen spiritual members of the same Kingdom as they  represent of the heavenly kingdom on the earth and rule accordingly?

I can see that there is more to this than the elect ruling as spirit being.  I do believe we will be able to take on a physical form, as Jesus did after His resurrection.
Also I can see that there will be set up a earthly gov. where Jesus and the elect administrate over it.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[Craig]

Try this to understand. 

"Great is John the baptist, but the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

Now we know that John was highly reguarded and a great man on earth, in his carnal, physical body, but those who are born anew with the spirtual body in the kingdom will "all" be greater than John.

"Clear as Mud?"

Craig

[Kat]

Hi Craig,

Okay, yes Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets will be in the kingdom, so they would be in the same position as John, this must be speaking about the physical part of the kingdom when it comes to the earth.

Mat 8:11  And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

[eggi]

Good question Kat, I began writing this post thinking that I had everything sorted out, but now after about four hours of reading and researching, I'm still unable to see what is the difference between Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets, and the Jews as a whole. I can explain Matthew 8:11 by the difference in timing, but Luke 13:28 shows that there is a difference between Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the rest of the Jews. Or does it? That's what we have to look into...

I'll post what I wrote until I got "stuck" at Luke 13:28.





The way I see this is that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets were under the old covenant, and therefore they received not the promise.

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: (Rom 4:13-14 KJV)

Abraham was a man of faith, but he didn't know what his hope was. He didn't know Jesus Christ.

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Gal 3:14-19 KJV)

Paul says in Hebrews 11 that they all (that's all of Israel in the OT, all of them) lived by faith. Because of this they obtained a good report, but they did not receive the promise:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Heb 11:1-40 KJV)

How can that be? Doesn't that seem unfair, seeing that they did all these things through faith? The only answer is that they didn't keep it spiritually, and therefore, they were not Christ's:

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:29 KJV)

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Rom 7:14 KJV)

So, when will the heirs of the promise from the OT receive the promise?

When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate. (Eze 16:55 KJV)

Then what about Matthew 8:11?

When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mat 8:10-12 KJV)

The question is, when does this happen, to who, and in what order? They will all eventually be in the kingdom of heaven, but the children of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness. Just because Jesus says: [...] and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven, does that mean that Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, are already there? Apparently not:

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Mat 19:28 KJV)

And what about Luke 13:28:

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. (Luk 13:28-29 KJV)


Now... What about Luke 13:28?

[eggi]

I found this in the email section, and maybe it can shed some light on this discussion:

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,973.0.html

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Kat

You quote two scriptures : Mat 8:11  And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of Heaven.

Luk 13:28  There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves being thrust out.

Here are my thoughts: Some of us will sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob (Matt 8:11) and some of us will be thrust out (Luke 13:28)

Mtt 8 this refers to the Centurion who considered himself unworthy to receive Jesus into his home yet he acknowledged Jesus for His authority with respect for Jesus and honor for His Name. Jesus marveled at the faith of the Centurion and said in reference to the CENTURION  vs 10 I tell you truly, I have not found so much faith as this with anyone, even in Israel.
It was to such as the Centurion that Jesus said that many like the Centurion, shall sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven.

In the second scripture Luke 13 this is with reference to those who upon resurrection are found to be unlike the Centurion because  they consider themselves worthy through works and imagined fellowship with Christ. The have the audacity to say to the King of Kings vs. 26 We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.   They are arrogant and ask why they are not permitted into the Kingdom which is quite unlike the attitude portrayed by the Centurion. To them Jesus says vs 27 I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from Me all you wrongdoers!

After resurrection, what will the attitude be of them who do good works and consider themselves worthy of Christ. Where will the self righteous Pharisee go?

The Hebrew children were the FIRST to be selected by divine election. Rom 11 : 25 Lest you be self-opinionated, I do not want you to miss this hidden truth and mystery, brethren; a hardening has befallen part of Israel until the full number of the ingathering of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved.

They who are first  (OT) will be last......to be saved.

Who are the last? The NT children of the promise who are dragged out of Mystery Babylon and who are receiving judgment now. They are last in the time line and will be first in the Kingdom. This time line is in Matt 20 : 9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

Which children will gnash their teeth? Mystery Babylon does not only have its presence in the NT. Its roots are in the OT. The OT Pharisees and the Scribes who Jesus called snakes and hypocrites and white washed sepulchers are the roots to the NT leadership in Christendom.


Matt 13 : 41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense, persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin, and all who do iniquity and act wickedly. 42. And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth. 

The key is the return of Christ and the Resurrection. When Abraham Isaac and the faithful prophets are woken, they will see, believe and rejoice. They will receive the promise and be grafted into the tree of life again and restored. Rom 11 : 2 No, God has not rejected and disowned His people whose destiny He had marked out and appointed and foreknown from the beginning. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?3. Lord, they have killed Your prophets; they have demolished Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life. 4. But what is God's reply to him? I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal!

When the Centurion is resurrected will he not worship honor and obey? Yet when the present day Church leadership are resurrected will they not expect to be honored worshiped and obeyed and instead be cast out into the outer darkness where they will weep and gnash their teeth.

The return of Christ is the great equalizer. Only once Christ returns then Matt 13 : 42 THEN will the righteous, those who are upright and in right standing with God, shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Then we shall see Abraham Isaac etc...


All will be saved but some will have to gnash their teeth first in outer darkness.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[eggi]

Arcturus,

So there is a difference between Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets and the rest of the Jews!
If we pay attention to the words, in fact that is what Luke 13:28 is saying, isn't it?

[gmik]

I found this in the email section, and maybe it can shed some light on this discussion:

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,973.0.html

Thanks Eirik, I was looking for that!
gena

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Eirik

I believe so.

Just as there is a difference between the called out ones who come out of Mystery Babylon and those who stay in holding to their idols of their hearts....compare to the faithful and the unfaithful....and those who have ears and those who will not tolerate sound doctrine!

Peace to you

Arcturus