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Author Topic: Can elect both honor & dishonor?  (Read 2027 times)

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Brett

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Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« on: January 07, 2007, 03:03:08 AM »

Hi again,

I have question for you, in Ray's letter of "When the towers fall", I notice his letter of verses about 'house of God' and 'great House'. From what I understand 'house of God' are the elect in the scripture: "For the time is come that JUDGMENT must begin at The House of God…" (I Pet. 4:17). But in verse 2 Tim. 2:20 said "great House" are the elect also? If so, what these mean "...great house (elect)...some to honour, and some to dishonour." in 2 Tim. 2:20 mean? Can elect be both honour and dishounor? I though once God's elect are honor God. Know what I mean? See the verses:


Rom 9:21 KJV  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel (God created) unto honour, and another unto dishonour.

2Ti 2:20 KJV But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Your help will be appreciate!

Thanks,

Brett :D
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 10:14:01 AM »


Hi Brett,

As I looked at the context of this scripture, I can see that Paul is talking about some that 'have left the way of the truth.'

2Ti 2:18  They have left the way of truth and are upsetting the faith of some believers by saying that our resurrection has already taken place.

And as I see this in v. 20, Paul says a large house, as in broad is the way, so I think he is talking about the whole church, and not just the called out ones there. 
The elect are some (few) in v. 20, 'for special occasions,' and in v. 21, 'who made themselves clean...used for special purposes,'

2Ti 2:20  In a large house there are dishes and bowls of all kinds: some are made of silver and gold, others of wood and clay; some are for special occasions, others for ordinary use.
2Ti 2:21  Those who make themselves clean from all those evil things, will be used for special purposes, because they are dedicated and useful to their Master, ready to be used for every good deed. (GNB)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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YellowStone

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Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 02:58:42 PM »

Hi Bret,

This will be such a short answer, I am almost embarrassed posting it. :)

Yes, because God does both the chosing and the electing. We know not his credentials or his reasons; however, we do know that we are still human living in a carnal world.

I think it would be unwise to ever think that once elected, one could or would never dishonor God again; if not while awake, perhaps when dreaming. Who can say.

Question for you and everyone else.

Can anyone dishonor God, by their own free will?

Not by my understanding. :)

Love to all of you,
Darren
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 04:13:06 PM »

These are my thoughts on this subject.

Was Judas Iscariot ever Elect? No.  He walked talked and did the bidding of Christ but he was not faithful to Jesus. Judas  was created a vessel of dishonor in order that the scriptures might be fulfilled. John 6 : 70 Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil. 71. He spoke of Judas Iscariot……

God is the potter and we are the clay. For me that is absolute. We can discern what vessel we are by measuring our thoughts words and deeds in other words by judging ourselves. 1 Cor 10 : 31…whatever  you may do, do all for the honor and glory of God.
1 Cor 3 : 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If anyone does hurt to God’s temple or corrupts it with false doctrines or destroys it, God will do hurt to him and bring him to the corruption of death and destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, sacred to Him and that temple you are. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Matt 12:34

The heart is the vessel. 1 Cor 11 : 31 If we searchingly examined ourselves, detecting our shortcomings and recognizing our own CONDITION,  we should not be judged and penalty decreed by the divine judgment.

If we watch our choices and our decisions and ask ourselves, what does this decision make me or what does this thought say about me or what does this choice show me about who I am before God….then  I should be able to stay on my knees in front of my High Priest and recognize my weakness, failings and liability to temptations in other words my CONDITION and be ushered into the Throne Room of God to receive Mercy, Grace and unmerited favor in my time of need. My need for me is constant……………..I am all the time weak, failing and liable. Christ is all the time strong, able and sinless. I am constantly dependent on God for His Mercy and Grace and Favor because He is the supplier of all my needs and His Son is the way to God. How often should I go to Christ my High Priest who understands everything? I should never leave! How often should I be dependent on God?  All the time.  Am I?  Yes. Do I know it? No, not constantly, not yet but I know one day, according to the will of God, I will know all the time that I am dependent on Him ceaselessly because that is the sweet spot of the soul communion with Christ and the Father. The way to this sweet spot is via pain trial and suffering at His invitation, according to His selection and good pleasure.

Matt 6 : 13 And lead us not into temptation

Psalm 27 : 12 Give me not up to my adversaries

Shows to me that I have no free will or ability to act independently outside of Gods Sovereignty because God leads and I am dependent.  King David knew the Plan of God.  Psalm 27:8 You (God) have said, Seek My face, inquire for and require My presence as your VITAL need…..The Will of God is that we will all know it one day that God’s presence is our vital need when He will be all in all.

Only God can make that happen. Only God can reveal to us that He is our vital need. Then only can anyone comprehend the Sovereignty of God and the illusion of Free will.

We will ALL be HIS vessels of honour one day because He will be ALL in ALL one fine day!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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eggi

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Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 06:15:51 PM »

GREAT post, Arcturus!

I got the feeling I was reading Scripture!
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Here’s how to tell if you have faith; how do you live… what do you do… what do you accomplish in life… what are your goals… What is there about you that proves that you have this faith and belief inside of you? What?

rrammfcitktturjsp

  • Guest
Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2007, 06:42:42 PM »

Darren,

  Good answer short and sweet and to the point.   ;D  Man Arcturs you really blow me away with the wisdom that you grace the forum with everyday.  Keep it up.


  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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DWIGHT

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Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2007, 06:48:02 PM »

Brett,

I beilieve that Kat nailed it. Nice job Kat.

Dwight,
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2007, 07:48:12 PM »

GREAT post, Arcturus!

I got the feeling I was reading Scripture!


What a precious perception! I appreciate it especially as I see you to be a disciple of the word of God yourself Eirik!

Man Arcturus you really blow me away with the wisdom that you grace the forum with everyday.  Keep it up.

Anne….sorry….it is not my grace or my wisdom and I really do appreciate you thinking it is for me to keep it up.  I would love to but I can do nothing. It is my blessing to read what comes up for me from the depths of my being and I too like you and a few others am also blown away! I get to be blown away first!  ;D

This Forum is a place of Gods good pleasure at work in us all. To Him we can humbly submit….Keep it up Lord, Keep it up so that we may keep going and growing more into HIS image, grace and wisdom, council and benevolence, mercy and love degree by degree and daily into the fruit of His Spirit.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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YellowStone

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Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2007, 11:27:01 PM »

Arcturus wrote with feeling:  :)

This Forum is a place of Gods good pleasure at work in us all. To Him we can humbly submit….Keep it up Lord, Keep it up so that we may keep going and growing more into HIS image, grace and wisdom, council and benevolence, mercy and love degree by degree and daily into the fruit of His Spirit.


Well said Arcturus, this forum is such a blessing in my life and Arcturus you too a very much part of the peace and love I feel form this board.

Like you say, God is the bringer of all truth and it is to him we should always thank for sharing his grace and wisdom. There is likewise so much grace and wisdom being shared daily in this forum that I would be lost if not for you all.

Thanks and love to you,
Darren
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Brett

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Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 12:06:08 AM »

Wow! Great posts by Kat and Arcturus. Very insight! :D

Yep, everything is all of God and nothing is execpt.

Brett
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Can elect both honor & dishonor?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 04:41:34 PM »

There but for the Grace of God, there but for HIS Mercy and there but for HIS unmeritted Favor towards us all dear brethern!

Peace to you all

Arcturus :)
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