The biggest stumbling of orthodoxy

[rvhill]

Something I been thinking about, what is the biggest stumbling to orthodoxy. I say orthodoxy because it come both catholics and other orthodoxy churches and Protestantism. After all Protestants are just protest catholics. Is not the eternal hell Doctrine( which I believe Ray believes, but I could be wrong.), but the humanist philosophy of free will. It seem to me that one must first give up humanism, before they can give up the hell doctrine.  As long as someone believe, that they can stop God's plan they must believe in a hell of some kind. This why I hate humanism with a passion. That, and the fact it teaches that a person can be good by their own merit.

This my first thread in this forum I hope it does not cause to much strife.

PS if Ray does agree with me, I am sorry I doubted him on this subject. It just seem to me he is more focused on the effect and not the cause.  The hell eternal hell doctrine is the effect of the cause of Humanism.

[bobf]

I used to think that once a person rejects free will, they are real close to seeing that God will save all mankind.  But have you ever talked to a calvinist?  They reject free will but have no problem hanging on to ET.  Of course their view of God is montrous, but they are able to keep it.

[Andrew]

Actually RV, (and I'm not argueing your point here) For me. quite the opposite happened.

The belief in E.T. was burned out of me before my belief in free will was cast onto the sea.

Now I also agree that "free will" is the greater stumbling block.
At work their's some that like to discuss the Word with me, and they like the scriptures that disprove the E.T. doctrine.
But once we get into the "free will" issue ,it's a different story.

[Chris R]

Hello Rvhill,

I'm not understanding what your trying to convey, help me out

Thanks

Chris R

[orion77]

The ET doctrine never really had a foothold on me, just seemed so contradictory.  But they had me in their foolish "freewill" doctrine.  Took God a good while to burn that out of me.  The belief that God will not interfere with man's freewill is strictly taught out of tradition.  It does away with the soverignity of God, and puts mans own will over the top of the Makers will.  Anything that puts self first is dangerous.  Its a very hard doctrine to put down.

Eternal torture by a loving God is simply slandering the name and character of God.  A belief that will cause much grief and anguish to lots of people down the road when they find out how wrong they were.  Nevertheless God will heal and forgive them, also.

They are both big stumbling blocks, but hard to say which is the biggest.  Just real glad the Lord has opened my eyes.

God bless,

Gary

[undignifieddancer]

Guys,

I'm new here but not new to any of these conerstones without free will and ET.  I accept these both as false teachings by the mid-early chruch to control the unlearned population and create works righteousness to benefit the money machine that is the Church.

Being new here I can't know every discussion so forgive me if I'm asking a dumb question.  However I believe the final step of this thought process which is that the victory of Christ was just that....the victory.  The kingdom is now!!! And the kingdom will be...all at the same time.

Without ET, free will while counting salvation for all.... this is the kingdom...what else do we need?  Yet we haven't fully realized it in our "human" time.

Peace

[Falconn003]

undignifieddancer

Good point you brought up...what else do we need

I would go with a lot of spiritual growth for myself and me expressing tolerance for others.

Rodger

[orion77]

Good points, undignifiedancer and falcon.  When I see how much Gods name and character is slandered and falsely accused, even still He loves us while we were yet sinners.  I believe after He has opened our eyes, we should treat our brothers and sisters in this same way He has treated us.  I honestly think this is the hallmark of being a true disciple of our Lord.  We must follow Him, period.  The day will come when we shall see Him as He is, for we shall be like Him.  All of this through the working of the spirit of Him that is in us, to where all the glory goes to the Father.  After all, it is all His anyways.  The life we have is not ours, it was given to us.  The best we can do is to follow His son, Jesus Christ and to get off our high horse and realize we are nothing, can do nothing and can't say nothing except for and from them.  I hate the ways of this world, but I love this life He has given me.  Always thankful and count myself lucky to have a Great God that is full of love, mercy and forgiveness.

God bless,

Gary

[Falconn003]

Gary


I say   A  M  E  N  !!! to that sir.



Rodger