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The biggest stumbling of orthodoxy

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rvhill:
Something I been thinking about, what is the biggest stumbling to orthodoxy. I say orthodoxy because it come both catholics and other orthodoxy churches and Protestantism. After all Protestants are just protest catholics. Is not the eternal hell Doctrine( which I believe Ray believes, but I could be wrong.), but the humanist philosophy of free will. It seem to me that one must first give up humanism, before they can give up the hell doctrine.  As long as someone believe, that they can stop God's plan they must believe in a hell of some kind. This why I hate humanism with a passion. That, and the fact it teaches that a person can be good by their own merit.

This my first thread in this forum I hope it does not cause to much strife.

PS if Ray does agree with me, I am sorry I doubted him on this subject. It just seem to me he is more focused on the effect and not the cause.  The hell eternal hell doctrine is the effect of the cause of Humanism.

bobf:
I used to think that once a person rejects free will, they are real close to seeing that God will save all mankind.  But have you ever talked to a calvinist?  They reject free will but have no problem hanging on to ET.  Of course their view of God is montrous, but they are able to keep it.

Andrew:
Actually RV, (and I'm not argueing your point here) For me. quite the opposite happened.

The belief in E.T. was burned out of me before my belief in free will was cast onto the sea.

Now I also agree that "free will" is the greater stumbling block.
At work their's some that like to discuss the Word with me, and they like the scriptures that disprove the E.T. doctrine.
But once we get into the "free will" issue ,it's a different story.

Chris R:
Hello Rvhill,

I'm not understanding what your trying to convey, help me out

Thanks

Chris R

orion77:
The ET doctrine never really had a foothold on me, just seemed so contradictory.  But they had me in their foolish "freewill" doctrine.  Took God a good while to burn that out of me.  The belief that God will not interfere with man's freewill is strictly taught out of tradition.  It does away with the soverignity of God, and puts mans own will over the top of the Makers will.  Anything that puts self first is dangerous.  Its a very hard doctrine to put down.

Eternal torture by a loving God is simply slandering the name and character of God.  A belief that will cause much grief and anguish to lots of people down the road when they find out how wrong they were.  Nevertheless God will heal and forgive them, also.

They are both big stumbling blocks, but hard to say which is the biggest.  Just real glad the Lord has opened my eyes.

God bless,

Gary

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