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Is the tower of Babel symbolic of the religious church world?
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Marycee
Your post reminded me of this e-mail response from Ray.
Dearest Ray
You are a "ray" of light! Please would you tell me what Jesus could have meant in John 17:9 where He excluded the world in His prayer. Who did he mean to be excluded?
Thank you & bless you
Deborah
Dear Deborah:
Good question.
The "world" represents two entities in Scripture: [1] The Church, Judaism, the Whore, Mystery Babylon the Great, and [2] The social system of the the nations in general.
Jesus referred to both in John's Gospel account:
"...but be of good cheer; I have overcome the WORLD" (John 16:33). What "world?" Did He overcome China? Japan? Indolnesia? No, Jesus overcame the world of Judaism--"He came unto His own [the Jews] but they received Him NOT," and hence He had to overcome them all the days of his earthly ministry.
But in John 17:24 rea read, "...for You loved Me before the foundation of the WORLD" is speaking of the whole "kosmos"--the whole system of world governemtns.
Jesus prayed for NEITHER of these two "worlds," as their destiny is solidly fixed by God's divine providence, and therefore prayer would be of no value. Jesus does not pray that His Father's Prophecies should NOT come to pass, and neither do God's Elect pray such nonsense as is parroted daily over the air waves "pray for world peace." Nonsense. There will be no world peace--God has already decreed it.
God be with you,
Ray
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Martymonster:
a few of the old tesament books seem to be speaking of God's elect.
it seems that so much of the OT is just prophecy of those who will overcome the church world, and I must say it appears that these overcomers are very important to Him and He holds them in very very high esteem!
marycee:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on January 20, 2007, 04:14:44 PM ---Hello Marycee
Your post reminded me of this e-mail response from Ray.
Dearest Ray
You are a "ray" of light! Please would you tell me what Jesus could have meant in John 17:9 where He excluded the world in His prayer. Who did he mean to be excluded?
Thank you & bless you
Deborah
Dear Deborah:
Good question.
The "world" represents two entities in Scripture: [1] The Church, Judaism, the Whore, Mystery Babylon the Great, and [2] The social system of the the nations in general.
Jesus referred to both in John's Gospel account:
"...but be of good cheer; I have overcome the WORLD" (John 16:33). What "world?" Did He overcome China? Japan? Indolnesia? No, Jesus overcame the world of Judaism--"He came unto His own [the Jews] but they received Him NOT," and hence He had to overcome them all the days of his earthly ministry.
But in John 17:24 rea read, "...for You loved Me before the foundation of the WORLD" is speaking of the whole "kosmos"--the whole system of world governemtns.
Jesus prayed for NEITHER of these two "worlds," as their destiny is solidly fixed by God's divine providence, and therefore prayer would be of no value. Jesus does not pray that His Father's Prophecies should NOT come to pass, and neither do God's Elect pray such nonsense as is parroted daily over the air waves "pray for world peace." Nonsense. There will be no world peace--God has already decreed it.
God be with you,
Ray
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Good thoughts, as always, by Brother Ray.
I base my understanding that the Tower of Babel refers to all mankind and his endeavors in all areas, and is not just a symbol concerning apostate religion, because the Tower of Babel occurred before there was Judaism or Christianity, and it was not speaking in the context of any religion. It was speaking in the context of man's going his own way ignoring God. Of course, false religion is always a part of the world system, but the world system, I feel, is the greater system referred to in the Tower of Babel. Why else would it speak of God confusing the languages? I could certainly be wrong. It could also be speaking of God confusing man's religion, too. Actually, God does not wish man to be religious; and I think we all agree on that. He wants man to know Him and obey Him; but that is not religion.
Joey Porter:
Good replies from everyone.
What I see in the tower of Babel story that stands out to me the most, and how it relates the church, is the confusing of the languages.
Just think about it. There is one God. One Word. The same 66 books about the same God used by the church, but there are thousands of denominations in the church world, and they all see contradicting things.
The "language" of the church world is confused. I guess the church world is a microcosm of the whole world.
The Calvinist can't understand the "language" of the Arminian. The Pre Trib believer can't understand the "language" of the Post Trib believer. They are each convinced that they see the truths of these issues in the scriptures yet none can see what the other sees or understand what the other does. It's just like a Japanese man trying to talk Japanese to a German who only understand German.
Martymonster:
Hey Joey!
It seems to me that it's not just one demomination can't understand another, it's the Christian church as a whole can't understand the truths contained in either the old or the new testaments.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are outside, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
I think that is what is being talked about here when it refers to confusing their languages, and if they can't understand they can't agree and then they will be devided.
Mar 3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mar 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Mar 3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Mar 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but comes to an end.
Just something to think about!
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