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SAVED
Deborah-Leigh:
Are we saved yesterday today or tomorrow?
I believe that this question is important enough to discuss to bring forward the many truths we need to stand on as our reality in Christ the rock who is coming again.
What do you think?
Peace to you all
Arcturus :)
Hokie0000:
Define "Saved"
DWIGHT:
Arcturus,
Ray has stated that salvation is a process and that we will not ultimately be saved until we are in the kingdom. The same goes for God making man in His image; both are on going. Yet, he chose us before the foundation of the world to be His children. If we look at salvation through God's eyes, then we have always been and always will be saved. But through own eyes and experience, it is an on going process. I believe that when we are truely filled with His Spirit, we actually experience the salvation that God has planned for us. Does this make sense? I know that when I'm away from the presence of the Lord I feel only carnal and fleshly things; but when I'm in spirit and abiding in the Lord, I only feel spiritual things. And those spiritual things are eternal. No wonder the whole creation groans for the manifestation of the sons of God.
In His grace,
Dwight
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Hokie0000
Welcome to the Forum!
Thank you for your question 8)
For me saved is deliverance from sin, uncleanness, the devil, wrath, this present evil world, enemies, death, weakness, failure and liability to temptations.
Now that should reveal when I think we will be saved. Not yesterday as some think they are. eg....I have been saved since 1977 when I was born again!....or today as in a done deal claimed in a half a minute sinners prayer, but tomorrow when Christ comes again for those who are eagerly waiting and hopefully expecting HIM.
Dwight I am in absolute agreement with what you offer from your observations. What came to my thoughts from your post was absolute v/s relative perceptions. When God sees us in Christ, abiding continually and depending without pause, on and in HIS love, then we are saved. Can there be any other way to stand the scrutiny of the Spirit of God? except that Christ makes us to be dependent, abiding and blessed to know and experience HIS trustworthiness, HIS faithfullness His LOVE and HIS sacrifice for us to bring us into Eph 4 : 12 ....the standard height of HIS own perfection, the measure of the stature of the fullness of HIS completeness found in HIM alone.
Should we speculate that our salvation that is bought at a price is guaranteed to us before His work in us is finished? I do not think so. Thank you for your thought provoking post.
Peace to you.
Arcturus :)
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
Good topic.
Wouldn't saved and born again be about the same idea.
As we are only begotten now, we are sealed with the earnest of His Spirit now.
2Co 1:22 And He has sealed us and having given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
When Jesus returns those raised or changed will be Spirit and born into the kingdom.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Here is an email of Ray's on saved.
http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm#saved ---
[Ray Replies]
Dear Margaret:
"How do we KNOW that we are saved?" Excellent question! Would you believe that the Scriptures do not answer this specific question? If they do, I am not aware of such an answer. The problem in answering this question is that you put it in the PAST TENSE--"How do we know that we ARE saved" which, I guess, could be in the past or present tense. Either way, I know of no Scripture that gives such an answer.
Here is what we do read regarding salvation:
"might save" "to save" "shalt save" "save us" "shall be saved" "such as should be saved" "whereby we must be saved" "we shall be saved" "what must I do to be saved" etc., etc., etc.
And even those few verses that speak of "but unto us which ARE saved...." a closer look at the Greek shows that it is in the aiorist tense and should be translated "...which ARE BEING saved..." as it is not as yet a completed fact or act.
Even Ephesian 2:8 which states: "For by grace ARE you saved through faith...." which is properly translated with the word "are" than "are you being saved" or some other aiorist tense verb, still does not show that anyone is ALREADY saved. The phrase "ARE saved" is telling us HOW we are saved, not WHEN we are saved. We "are" saved by grace just as people a century into the future also "ARE saved by grace." That's HOW they are saved, not WHEN.
If there were a verse that stated that we or anyone ARE or HAVE BEEN already saved, it would contradict many other Scriptures that show that salvation is an ongoing process.
This verse says it all:
"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same SHALL BE saved" (Matt. 24:13).
If this verse be absolutely true, can a statement that contradicts this statement of our Lord ALSO be true? Well, for example, "...he that shall NOT endure unto the end... ALSO be saved?" See the contradiction?
Jesus says to him that OVERCOMES... seven time in Rev. 2 and 3. If the "overcoming" part is really not necessary, then why is it emphatically stated such SEVEN TIMES?
Is there a reason for not having a verse stating how one can know that they are absolutely SAVED [past tense] at some point in their lives? I think so. We can NEVER STOP overcoming, striving, pressing on, following after, etc. We can have CONFIDENCE AND HOPE that we will be saved if we continue in our present total devotion to God, but never in this life can we say that we "ARE saved" already, in the past tense.
God has not, however, left us with assurances that we can absolutely bank on, if we follow His admonitions. Here is just one:
"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brother kindness charity [LOVE]. For if these things be in you and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful... give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye DO THESE THINGS, YE SHALL NEVER FALL" (II Pet. 1:5-8 & 10).
God be with you,
Ray
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mercy, peace, and love
Kat
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