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Author Topic: Aions  (Read 2876 times)

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Craig

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Aions
« on: January 24, 2007, 09:35:45 AM »

    Hi Ray,
                  I read with interest articles in your website.
    It is very interesting, however there are a few things that have caused me concern.
    The main thing is that you seem to base your view on whether the lake of fire is eternal or not on the translation from greek of the word aions and on the phrase aions of the aions.
    As a greek cypriot and being brought up in the greek orthodox christian faith I have always been taught that this means forever.
    You would think out of all the thousands of greek theologians, priests, christians over the centuries that somebody greek  out there  would have corrected this view if it were wrong.
    I can understand somebody non greek getting it wrong but the greeks themselves?
    Let me put it this way, in english dont you often get a phrase which when taken  literally it means something else but to somebody who is a fluent english speaker they know what it really means.
    Its the same with the phrase aions of the aions, when translated into english literally  you are right it does mean ages of the ages but the phrase itself to a fluent greek speaker actually   means   forever.
    I should know because I speak both english and greek fluently.
    How do you know that it wasn't also the case back when the bible was written.
    Maybe you should contact some greek scholars or     linguists  and double check just to see if it did actually mean anything different in the past.
    I havn't  written this letter to defend the eastern orthodox religeon, I know that just like the catholics they have their faults, if anything I am more right wing   american evangelical in my beleifs.
    I'm only writing this as a freind because I can see you are a decent guy trying to lead people closer to God,  and there are a lot of truths in your website such as your articles about easter, christmas   amongst others.
    I just think that on this particular subject of whether punishment is eternal or not you may have got it wrong. 
    I think you are taking a massive gamble by just assuming that aions of aions is not just a figure of speech meaning eternal when virtually all greeks treat it as being a figure of speech meaning eternal.
                                  Demetri.
     

    Dear Demetri:
    Thank you for your email and comments.
     
    It matters not what "virtually all Greeks" believe today regarding ancient words of the past. The question is, How were they used and understood at the time of the writing of the Greek Scriptures?
    Is there anywhere in Classical Greek literature, for example, where "aion" and later "aionios" meant "eternity" or "endless time?"  No, no there isn't.  People send me "translations" of Classical Greek in which the Greek "aionios" is translated into the English "eternal" as PROOF that this word means and MEANT eternal in the past. Oh really?  You might just as well quote to me the the King James Bible if one thinks such nonsense is proof.  They try to show that the Greek gods were "eternal." Excuse me, but THE GREEK GODS COULD DIE!!  Didn't Zeus KILL his own father?
     
    Or better yet is when someone shows me a modern dictionary definition of such words as "timeless" or "ageless" and suggests that these words mean eternity. Where did these dictionaries get their definitions for such words? From THEOLOGIANS, that's where.  And these are the ONLY cases in dictionaries where the suffix "-less" means "more."  "Ageless" is LESS THAN AN AGE, not eternity. Something that is "timeless" is not eternal, but rather HAS NO TIME. And this is because "No adjective can take on a different or greater meaning that the noun from which it is derived."  An "age" is never suggested to be "eternity" in Scriptures. In fact, the very concept of eternity is foreign to the Scriptures. Instead we have phrases such as "has NO END," and "immortality."
     
    As for there being no Greek scholars who believe that aions are not ages, but eternity, just read my paper on "Is EVERLASTING Scriptural" in which I cite many Greek and Hebrew Scholars who understand perfectly well that aionios never meant "eternal" in ancient Greece.
     
    God be with you,
    Ray


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Craig

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Re: Aions
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2007, 09:37:41 AM »

Dear Ray,
                     thankyou for your reply,
                     I have just read your paper on everlasting scripture which you directed me to and what you say in it  makes sense to me. Next time I visit Cyprus or Greece I will take these arguments with me to theologians and priests there and see what they can make of them.
Thankyou again for your help.
                                              Demetri
 

I wanna go with you....Greece....Wow.  Of course I have already been through the Parthenon in Nashville. Splendid building, and they were going to tear it down after the fair.  It is surreal when you drive into the park in Nashville, and there....there....right there on the lawn, is THE GREEK PARTHENON!  Anyway, nice talking with you.
God be with you,
Ray
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