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Author Topic: Prayer and Fasting  (Read 3809 times)

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fe32k

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Prayer and Fasting
« on: January 24, 2007, 07:26:39 PM »

Is fasting a something we should do? As per Ray's teachings fasting cannot have any spiritual benefits because it is something we do in the flesh. I got this e-mail response from him regarding the matter but still left me we wanting more...

"Dear Roy:
... I never said you fasted for two years in vain, and I don't know that you should feel that way either.  I have gone many many times from 3 or 4 am till 3 or 4 pm studying God's word and have never thought for a moment (until you write me) that I was actually fasting, skipping meals, to study God's word. I know that many of the leading heretics in today's religious community, fast and pray, but little is accomplished by them.
 
I have never criticized anyone for fasting, being baptized, partaking of communion, foot washings, keeping of holy days, circumcision, anointed cloths, etc., etc.  But I also know that all of these things have a spiritual meaning to them. People become very self-righteous about keeping the seventh day Sabbath, and in so doing, they BREAK the spirit of what the sabbath represents--entered into GOD'S REST, that is not doing our works, but resting from our works and letting God perform His works in us (Eph. 2:8-10).  Christ was circumcised, baptized, fasted, partook of the last supper, washed the disciples' feet, etc.  Do you still, literallly, wash the feet of others?  Why not? I mean Jesus did say, "...you ALSO OUGHT to wash one another's feet." Do you? I do, but I don't use literal water and a bason because I KNOW the spiritual application of being a servant to others even when it means getting down and dirty.  Yet I have known hundreds from a p! revious church affiliation who had a "foot washing" ceremony annually along with the Passover service, and most of those leading men who literally washed others feet would never dream to actually doing anything in real life that was not pleasant in helping a lower level sheep.
 
And so this is how I see all of the physical rituals including fasting. There was nothing more important to Israel than circumcision, and yet Paul turns around and tells us "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye BE CIRCUMCISED , Christ shall profit you NOTHING" (Gal.  5:2). I realize that most people are not interested in the spiritual, and that the physical is much easier to do, because it can be SEEN. It is a lot harder to "live by faith" not seeing the things that we believe to be true. I will not say anything against physical fasting.  If that is what people feel they need to do, then possibly they should do it. If people FORGET that Jesus is their Saviour or that His blood was shed for them, or that we are to EAT HIS BODY, except they eat a little piece of bread and a sip of wine every so often, then so be it.  The longest I ever went without food and water was four days and for four days all I thought about was food and water, but I made myse! lf beli eve that I was DOING IT FOR THE LORD.  I guess I didn't know how to do it right or something.  Or maybe I'm just more honest than most people.  I believe Jesus was preparing us for bigger things when He taught: "It is the SPIRIT that quickens; the flesh profits NOTHING: the words that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63).
 
No, I don't have a specific verse that says,   "But he is a Jew, which is one INWARDLY, and fasting and baptism [circumcision] is that of the heart, in the SPIRIT[Isa. 58 & Rom. 6:4]], and not of the letter [actually not eating of food and getting wet in water]; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Rom. 2:29), but I believe it is the same.
God be with you,
Ray


This didn't leave me fully convinced. Because the following seem to show that fasting should be an essential part of the christian walk:
Matthew 4:2  "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward hungry."
Matthew 9:15 "...then shall they fast."
Matthew 17:21  "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."
Acts 10:30  "And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing" (Note how this happens after fasting.)
Acts 13:2  "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."
Act 10:10  "And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance" (Note that again a vision is given after a moment of fasting)

And so on and so forth. It is evident that fasting was a large part of Paul's ministry as well as Peter. I know that no one would tell me not to fast, but why isn't it encouraged by this ministry?

God be with you all,
Roy
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gmik

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2007, 08:38:17 PM »

Do it if you feel led to.

 Fasting for health reasons are good.  For clarity of mind too.  I think if you re read what you  just posted by Ray it makes sense to keep it spiritual.  What good is it if you are so hungry that you cannot actually accomplish the fast.  (like for a healing or something)

Isaiah says "is this not the fast I chose for you..." then he lists helping the poor etc.

Paul also said he was all things to all people, so he may have fasted to not harm his new Jewish brothers.

Better minds than mine will probably post to help you.

gena :)
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brothertoall

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2007, 09:30:04 AM »

In my fasting days the only thing I thought about was well I only have to go a few more hours and then I can eat! What good did that do me or anyone else.

 God is in control of all things and if He puts this in your heart to do so then by all means you should do the will of God.

 Most usually fast to get there prayers answered or for someone else. I have come to find out that:

James 2:14-18

 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


bobby
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2007, 10:01:11 AM »



In my fasting days the only thing I thought about was well I only have to go a few more hours and then I can eat! What good did that do me or anyone else.
 


bobby


 ;);D:-\

Bobby, I have fasted before when I was with the SDA's and my reaction (especially after a 3 day water only fast) was EXACTLY like yours, "oh man I can't wait to wolf down 6 pounds of food, any food, get out of the way Fido, those Gainesburgers are looking mighty good right now!

Joe
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Craig

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2007, 10:48:31 AM »

As Gena said, if you feel led to fast then by all means fast.

But if you are like Joe and in the midst of the fast you start thinking about food, then I would quit right there.

Do you suppose when Jesus fasted he was distracted by the thought of food?

When our "physical" carnal being tries to do the things of the spirit we will always fail, but if you are led by the spirit to do something and are in agreement with the spirit and Christ is doing, whatever the thing is, in you, then you will not fail.

Blessings

Craig
« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 11:24:54 AM by parsonssc »
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longhorn

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2007, 11:20:18 AM »

The only thing "fasting" did for me was make the biscutts and country gravy taste even better,,,, if thats possible.

Love in Christ

Longhorn
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dogcombat

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2007, 11:44:02 AM »

In Matthew 6, We see Jesus telling His diciples that their alms(charity work), prayer and fasting are to be done in SECRET. Regarding Fasting at verse 16(KJV) we see

16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

 17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;

 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Unless God CAUSES one to fast, we won't be able to.  In order to do so He must give us the faith to achieve it (Eph 2:8)

CHes

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2007, 05:19:40 PM »

Hello Roy

You ask : Is fasting a something we should do?

You further ask : why is it not encouraged by this ministry?

I believe the answer is MOTIVES...........

What would be your or my motive to fast? What would you or I get out of it or be expecting to achieve that Christ has not already won and done better than anyone who has ever lived or who ever will live can expect to gain? These questions are not for you or I to answer publically or personally but they can perhaps simply be guide lines to ask or test the motive because it is our/my motives not our/my good works that will be tested. :(

I believe and trust that no one can impress God except Christ His Son because no one can impoove on what Jesus has done for all humanity. If HIS Spirit is causing you or I to fast, then we/you need not ask any man for a second opinion but just be sure that it is Christ who would subdue your/our flesh by direct revelation and invitation for your/my co-operation. I bleive that If HE wants you/I to fast, He can take away your/my appetite and your/my food supply in order to humble us/you.

Just a few thoughts.....

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2007, 02:42:32 AM »

Hello Josh

You comment : and then we ourselves will gain too, perhaps not physically but spiritually, which reaps a greater reward.†

There in lies the motive that is common to all the Churches.

So you do something earthly to gain something spiritual?.... lead of course by the Church leadership.

These† teachings from Mystery Babylon smack in the face of Christ.† HE laid down HIS Glory, came down from Heaven to take up our flesh and then HE laid down HIS spotless flesh to return to HIS Glory. We have got nothing to compare with Christ but Mystery Babylon will not teach† that neither will any Church.† The Church teaches that Christ belongs to it, particularly its leadership who will give you a piece of HIS flesh and blood if you bow correctly to Church teachings, leadership, bliefs, traditions, customs and other such things it is doing that void the word of God.

Josh, those who are in the Church will suffer Her plagues..... I hope one day you will either come out of Her or be dragged out like I was. I had to be dragged.... I could not and I believe neither can anyone, come out by thier own merit. It is a gift from God.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

« Last Edit: January 27, 2007, 02:47:34 AM by Arcturus »
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Redbird

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2007, 07:07:16 AM »

If God has put prayer and fasting into your heart, then so be it.  When your motivation is LOVE, then all the more better!

Peace to you,

Lisa
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beverley

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2007, 12:21:27 PM »













Hi everyone  ;D   Like Craig said "When our "physical" carnal being tries to do the things of the spirit we will always fail, but if you are led by the spirit to do something and are in agreement with the spirit and Christ is doing, whatever the thing is, in you, then you will not fail."     That is so true....... I believe it will be effortless when Christ is doing it in us....When the flesh does it, it can be very hard......its a struggle, big struggle......
Beverley       Canada


 :)


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Kat

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2007, 09:23:20 PM »


Hi beverley,

It's good to see your first post  :)

You are so right when you said,

Quote
I believe it will be effortless when Christ is doing it in us....When the flesh does it, it can be very hard......

I'm amazed at the things Christ can do throught this lump, but indeed it is only by Him that I can do anything.

Phi 4:13  I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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gmik

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2007, 12:26:58 AM »

Welcome Beverly to the forum.  I am in Michigan.  Brrrrrr.  We always get Canada's cold fronts!

gena ;D
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rrammfcitktturjsp

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2007, 12:32:30 AM »

Beverly,

  Good to see you here posting in the forum.  Hey you can send your cold fronts here to West Texas.  I sure would like to get another chance of sledding down the hill at Mae Simmons Park a couple more times before spring gets here.

  Oh have the cold fronts skip over Gena.  She sounded like she was freezing.

  Sincerely,



  Anne C. McGuire
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beverley

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2007, 02:24:19 AM »

Hi Annie,
   I'll  just blow some cold air down where you are and you can blow some warm air up here...actually its not too bad today, was warm, but gets cold at nite....I have been on and off reading people's email, and i decided to start talking...actually i have really no one here to talk about the truth with (except my two daughter 9 & 14)..people think i'm a know it all..they think that i really lost it... really, people that didn't even believe in hell to begin with, now believe in hell when i tell them yes, there is no hell....go figure...they say where do you think the murders go and the horrible people and Satan and the demons...I say nope, God says them all, Satan also.....really they think i lost my mind....oh well..i argued for a couple of years now, now i don't bother,,i tell someone once, twice, third time i don't bother , i learned i was wasting my breath and energy.... :)    Beverely
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Bradigans

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2007, 02:48:10 AM »

Galatians 6:12 - As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised (go through some carnal outward show of righteousness); only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.I don't try to plan on doing anything if it's not THE SPIRIT'S LEADING. Amen, to what Brother Ray had to say. Just stay in THE WORD and don't try to make things happen in and with the flesh, but let things happen in and with THE SPIRIT. I don't ever plan to fast or anything else, it just happens (James 4:13-17). I'm simply caught up in The Spirit. THE SPIRIT really leads and you're not always aware.† Like he did Jesus in the wilderness, Satan is always trying to get us to do things from the standpoint of the flesh (carnal mindedness). Don't think so much, just simply be led by THE SPIRIT. Galatians 5:5 - For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.† † Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.†
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Seek and Find

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2007, 02:19:13 PM »

I noticed in this thread of fasting that nobody said anything about Diabetics we canít fast. Roy says that it is ( an essential part of the Christian walk ). So my question to Roy is do you believe that because were Diabetics and canít fast that we are not part of the body of Christ.



This didn't leave me fully convinced. Because the following seem to show that fasting should be an essential part of the Christian walk:



And so on and so forth. It is evident that fasting was a large part of Paul's ministry as well as Peter. I know that no one would tell me not to fast, but why isn't it encouraged by this ministry?



Romans 8

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 12
4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

Galatians 5

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.


Philippians 3

3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Colossians 2

9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him,(Christ) who is the head of all principality and power.


Peace in Christ

Steve















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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2007, 02:30:50 PM »

Welcome to the Forum Steve. :D

To add  to your observations.........

2 Cor 5 : 16  Consequently, from now on we estimate and regard no one from a purely human point of view, in terms of natural standards of value.

We are obedient or disobedient, we believe or we disbelieve and accordingly we rationalize or submit.

For me fasting is not a means to an end. Christ alone is the means and every knee will bow is the beginning of the end.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Phazel

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2007, 10:56:34 AM »

I think alot of the problem with fasting is that it is rarely a private ordeal between someone and God.   I have yet to meet someone that said they was fasting that didn't want to impress upon me thier sacrifice.

For my own walk alot of times is was "can I do it"  How will I feel about it,  will I be really hungry, is there a health risk, etc.

So, until i can honestly say that I am doing it only for God and no other reason, despite anything "I" feel, I will not fast.  So far I have not been compelled to do it for that reason.

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rrammfcitktturjsp

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Re: Prayer and Fasting
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2007, 12:27:39 PM »

Guys if I might be able to step in here for a second.

  To All,

  Great thread but I wish to add something if I could.  What is or should be the principle behind fasting?  It is done to bring one closer to God becuase when we deny ourself food and get hungry, we think about why we are doing it and naturally our thoughts go to God.

  I have not seen any mention on what I am going to bring up.  I know that fasting is an important part of my spiritual life, but I do not fast from food.  There are other things that you could do that would have the same effect.  I am hypoglycemic, NOTE:  I hate that word and can never spell it, and cannot fast from food.  But there are things that I can that are not dangerous to me, like TV or playstation.  When I turn those things off, I delve into the Word of God or enjoy crawling around on the floor with my creepy crawler, my 7 month old son.  I think that is the purpose of fasting from anything.

  The Scripture that bids us not to conform to the ways of this world.  I am fasting from the ways of the world, and believe me this is harder for me to do than it would be to fast from food.  Always look at the motives behind your desire to fast and if you cannot fast from food, figure out something that you can.

  I say this not to toot my horn and say it in humble state.  If my struggles can be of help to you all then I know that I have done good by posting this.

  Sincerely,


  Anne C. McGuire
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