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Reveling in infidelities

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gmik:
Just to comment Joe on the scripture, I read the account in John 4-16 and other than stating that she had 5 husbands Jesus didn't say anything else about it.  She went back and told people about Him,  they came to see Jesus and then He left.  He didn't do anything else w/ her.  Didn't even say Go and sin no more. Then Jesus left there.  Did she go back to the man she was living with?  Was he one of the people that came to see Jesus? Not much detail about those kinds of things.
What I find in this passage as sad is that the woman told the villagers come see a Man who told me ALL that I ever did.   just summed up her life, having5 husbands.  nothing else.  I see pathos in that, I don't know why.

I am not commenting on the rest of these threads.

gena :)

Kirk:
Are you still looking for a Biblical pattern for marriage or is that not the goal?

DWIGHT:
Hi Kirk,

I just noticed that was your first post!  Welcome in His name; we're happy to have you here and yes anything biblical that you have, please share it with us.

In Him,

Dwight

Joey Porter:
This is not an issue that I've spent a whole lot of time studying, but I've gotten a little restless in my spirit with some of what's been going on so I figured I'd chime in.

As I said, I don't have a lot of experience at seeking out the truth on this, and I don't have a set opinion either way.  But one thing I want to remind everyone of:  

I've heard Ray say a few times that "the bible doesn't always mean what it says, but it always means what it means."  I've seen people say that we must back up our beliefs on this issue with scripture.  That certainly is true, but it's never really as simple as that. We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.  After all, every major Christian denomination in the world backs up their doctrines with scripture.  So just because the scriptures speak of marriage feasts and so forth doesn't necessarily mean that the scriptures endorse an actual  wedding ceremony, with an exchange of vows, conducted by a "minister'' or "priest.''

Once again, I'm not arguing for or against either side of this "debate," but I do want to say that the answer to this may not be as "cut and dry" as it may seem.

First I want to bring up the issue of endorsing a wedding ceremony as conducted by someone who claims authority in the religious church system.  I assume that all of us who are posting here, do so because we've come to see many great errors in the Christian religious system, and we either have "come out of her" or are in the process of coming out.  So would it be pleasing to God for us go "back into her" for the sole purpose of being proclaimed by that person whom we know is in error, to be proclaimed "husband and wife?"  I don't have an answer for that, but it is something that we should ponder before advocating it.  

Beyond that, I know that often times the one who is conducting the ceremony will bring it to a climax by saying something similar to "By the power vested in me, I now pronounce you man and wife."  

But, what power?  Vested in him by whom?  Does he claim that God has given him the power to pronounce a couple as husband and wife?  Certainly there is no scriptural support for such a statement.  Should we rely on the proclamation of someone whom we know is a teacher of false doctrine to officially proclaim a man and a woman being one flesh?  And should we assume that if it is not done in this way, then the couple is not officially married?  Again, I don't think there will be any scripture supporting that.

I just wonder greatly about this, because we know that Jesus said that the flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit gives life.  We know that adultery is committed in the heart, and we know that true circumcision is of the heart.  I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.

2 Corinthians 3
3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Part of me says that it would be right and obedient to go through the proper, customary steps as we do in this country, in order to make a marriage official.  

But then another part of me says that if we really do believe that the heart is what counts and the flesh profits nothing, then all of that stuff should not matter in the least, and that we should fully come out of that way of thinking.

We know that the Christian church wedding ceremony honors the Lord with the lips, but does that mean that the heart would also be automatically close to Him, having the ceremony conducted by a self proclaimed "priest" or "reverend?"  Would it be like mocking God or taking His name in vein to have a marriage "made official" at the "authority" of one who does not teach God's truths?  

I don't know.  I would certainly not advocate pre-marital (I mean offical marriage) sex to anyone without earnestly searching the will of God.  However, I might be inclined to say the same for the issue of going through a religious wedding ceremony too.  

I just hope everyone keeps in mind that we need to search out the spiritual meaning of the scriptures for all major issues such as these.   And we also need to keep in mind Paul's warning:

Galatians 5
15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

I'm sure that all of the Christian denominations that exist today arose from groups of believers who had previously been of one mind.    I hope it doesn't happen here.

Let us all pray that none of us fall into the trap of hastily reading the scriptures with our carnal minds, as the Christian world does.

Kat:

Hi Joey,


--- Quote --- I am trying to reconcile all of this in my mind with the idea of a traditional ceremony with a physical ring and tangible paperwork, etc.
--- End quote ---

I don't think anyone was suggesting that someone should go through a church wedding.
There were alternatives brought up, but that is not something that needs to be decided here.


--- Quote ---We should always strive to seek out the spirit of the scripture, as opposed to merely just the printed letter.
--- End quote ---

I think that is the whole objective of those of us here  :)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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