> General Discussions
when is scripture literal and when is it spiritual????
brothertoall:
But if we are being revealed or have been revealed these truths then why would the use of that scripture be used literally? If the word is spirit then why would,lets say an answer from the mature, be used literally?
I have seen it done here and like I said I have been guilty myself of this. I am far from mature so I guess I know why I have done it but it is confusing to me when I see it come from more mature than many of us here.
Still confused.
bobby
Deborah-Leigh:
Why can't they understand?
« on: January 17, 2007, 04:39:45 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Ray
I was browsing your website for the first time today and got caught up in some of the debate and critiques, and left feeling a bit perturbed. I am an elder in a small local church, and we do our best to live our lives before God and to turn peoples’ heart back to Jesus through relationship, preaching and example in a urban / rural African context. As much as I enjoy intellectual and theological discussion I do not consider myself well studied in scripture. After examining the reasons for my feeling uncomfortable with the lengthy debate which you and your respondents commit to, I came to the conclusion that such matters, although important theologically, are beyond the understanding of most people on earth who have not been exposed to sufficient education or biblical teaching.
I have been blessed with considerable education (not in theology), yet I battle to keep on top of these basic issues that seem to tear at my faith. I happen to enjoy reading and trying to get to the bottom of an issue to form a standpoint, but I can’t imagine that these debates will ever be understood by the majority of people who are uneducated and do not look at life through intellectual lenses (no disrespect intended). Surely the millions of unbelievers that God wants the church to reach will not be persuaded that Jesus is their King by such intellectual debate, especially as it seems to bring division more than unity.
I wonder what the ordinary members of the early church, as described in Acts, did on a day to day basis as they went and preached the word as they knew it. They didn’t get involved in deep theology and extensive debate, but simply preached their testimony and what they had seen, built relationally, and operated with spiritual authority and power as led by the Holy Spirit. This is not a criticism of the debate you stimulate, but an observation. Paul raised a bunch of ‘higher’ theological issues with the churches but I would guess that these were not on the radar of most unbelievers or new converts.
The question I have rolling around in me is why are the very basics of our faith; heaven and hell, salvation and others, subject to so much confusion (in me anyway). Surely God would want these basics to be absolutely clear and not open to debate.
Kind regards
Richard
Dear Richard:
Absolutely, God did not want the masses and multitudes to understand His Truths. That is why Jesus gave all His public ministry through impossible to understand parables that not even the Apostles understood. And that is why God's truths are like great treasures that must be searched long and hard to acquire. Only, "the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10), and that wisdom has absolutely nothing to do with "intellectuality." The entire Christian community of theologians would absolutely laugh anyone to scorn who would suggest that L. Ray Smith is an "intellectual." Be sure to read my opening paper at the top of our home page "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" for a better understanding of this topic, also my paper "Twelve Truths to Understand God's Word." Even Peter confessed that Paul wrote things that for most people were "hard to understand" ( II Pet. 3:16).
God be with you,
Ray
Craig:
Thou shalt not commit adultry.
Literal interpretation; having sex with a person who is not your spouse. That is literal everyone understands it as such.
If you even look at a woman with lust in your heart you've commited adultry; that is a spiritual interpretation. And the spritual can go deeper still, and apply to all type of sin. Do you cheat your brother?....No, well have you ever thunk it? Have you ever murdered?.....No, well have you thought about it? I think you can see where I'm going.
Lets use sin as an example,
The spiritual does not lessen the literal interpretation of a sin. Having love and compassion for our fellow man over any sin is a gift from God, if any of us were in that persons position we would be doing the same (we could all be a Hitler). What we can do in this life is to recognize our sins and let Christ work them out of us. We don't have to judge a brother or sister over a sin, but we can know what sin is and help them to overcome it if they want our help, if they don't, then let them know we are there for them if they need us.
These are very deep spiritual subjects and I'm not sure you folks will find an answer that satisfies you here. Nobody is a teacher, especially the mods. We can give our help and our opinion and refer you to Ray's interpretation of topics, but we can't give you all the answers, or any for that matter, about any subject. A more mature member does not mean a more perfect member, they may have a grasp on one topic but wrestle with others. It took me about 18 months for the free will subject to really sink in and if I was questioned over it, there is no way that I feel qualified to teach it to anyone.
I feel that understanding Gods word is a gift that he gives, just like the other spiritual and literal gifts he bestows. If we try to force the understanding on our own then we will fail just like we fail at anything where it is God that needs to work through us.
Blessings
Craig
brothertoall:
Ok but does not adultry have a spiritual truth than the act of doing it? You see i guess what i am getting at here is that do we ourselves use the scripture literally to justify a belief and then maybe use that same scripture to go into a more spiritual meaning.Jesus told the crowd they were an adultress generation, Does that mean they all committed adultry with one another or was He referencing that they were spiritually commiting adultry with God.
Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
It seems to me that there is no half truth when it comes to the Word of God. It is either one or the other ,half truths do not make full truths nor do half lies make full truths.
Is this not what babylon has and still does? i have read the papers on bible truths and Ray makes it a point that it is all spiritual and not to be taken Literally.
Does anyone out there understand what i am trying to say or ask? Please post a response. it would be nice to hear what others have to say on this issue. the regulars always respond and I am very thankful for that but I would like to hear from some of our other members here.
thank you very much.
bobby
Craig:
--- Quote from: brothertoall on February 01, 2007, 04:21:14 PM ---
Is this not what babylon has and still does? i have read the papers on bible truths and Ray makes it a point that it is all spiritual and not to be taken Literally.
--- End quote ---
I'm sure you are right about what you are saying, but for my benefit can you point me to the paper where he states this?
Craig
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version