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when is scripture literal and when is it spiritual????

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Deborah-Leigh:
 
Bobby you ask :
Does anyone out there understand what i am trying to say or ask? Please post a response. it would be nice to hear what others have to say on this issue.

Here is what I see you are saying:

…….depending on the topic of the day many scripture verses have been used. Some seem to use it as meaning literally and others seem to use it as spiritually…… have been guilty of this myself.

I would not apply the word guilt to this…..that for me is too strong a word besides which it also carries a critical charge for misdemeanor which I do not think applies here.  >:(
 
…..the regulars always respond and I am very thankful for that but I would like to hear from some of our other members here.

Please explain what  you mean here Bobby….you are thankful but…..do you mean it is a nice day but the house burnt down or I think you are great but….? I am thankful but......For me the word BUT has a way of cancelling out what preceeds it....What do you literally or spiritually mean by “but….. It is always wonderful to have participation from others who may not feel that they can contribute towards building understanding wisdom and knowledge of God.  Just because I have been pretty regular in the Forum does not mean that I think I can give anything of any value from myself. It is only God who can open eyes and minds and only HIS Spirit can give anyone anything of value.  I speak literally!

 Here is an excerpt that comes to mind for this discussion and I literally hope it helps spiritually!


GOD IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ETERNAL FATE OF AFRICANS
A Sermon by:
James Kennedy, A.B., M.Div., M.Th., D.D.,
D.Sac.Lit., PhD., Litt.D., D.Sac.Theol., D. Humane Let.
A Critique by:  L. Ray Smith


RELATIVE VS. ABSOLUTE
If a theologian can't see the "absolute" versus the "relative" in Scripture, he is in no position to teach anyone.
A little boys asks: "Why did God say in Gen. 3:9: 'Where art thou [Adam]?' Mommy says that God knows everything." (I Jn 3:20). You say, "Of course God knew where Adam was. Adam sinned. Adam felt bad. He thought he could hide from God. God was condescending to man's level. It was for Adam's benefit that God asked, 'Where art thou Adam?'" You say, "That's not a problem. That's easy to understand and answer. It's stupid to think that God didn't know where Adam was."
And, of course, we have Scriptural proof that God knew where Adam was because "He [God] knows all" (I Jn 3:20)
Neither did our Lord ask questions out of ignorance:
"Believe ye that I am able to do this?" (Matt. 9:28)
"Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?" (Matt. 12:48)
"How many loaves have ye?" (Matt. 15:34)
"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matt. 116:13)
Christ asked dozens of questions during His ministry. But He already knew all the answers:
" ... because of His knowing ALL men ... " (Matt. 21:27).
Christ even answered questions by asking questions. The Pharisees asked why His disciples transgressed the "traditions." Our Lord knew how to "answer a fool according to his folly" (Prov. 26:5) by asking: "Wherefore are you also transgressing the precept of God because of your tradition?" (Mat. 15:3)
This brings up another apparent contradiction, however, because Prov. 26:4 says: "answer not a fool according to his folly ... " Our Lord knew how to do that as well: "Neither am I telling you by what authority I am doing these things." (Mat. 21:27). These two scriptures in Proverbs should teach us to never pit one verse of Scripture against another. Verse 4 and 5 do not contradict. They are both true.
So if it's stupid to think that God didn't really know where Adam was, a relative statement condescending to man's level, isn't it then, likewise, stupid to believe that God contradicts Himself in the following verses:
 
THE RELATIVE:   THE ABSOLUTE:
" ... seek, and ye shall find ... " (Mat. 7:7)   "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)
"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14)   "God is not a man Who changes His mind" (I Sam. 15:29)
" ... choose you this day whom ye will serve." (Josh. 24:15)   "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you ... " (Jn. 15:16)
" ... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God ... " (I Jn. 3:10)   "All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
"Zechariah was just before God" (Lk. 1:5) (Comparing him to the corrupt priests)   "Not one is just" (Rom. 3:10) (Comparing man with God)
 
One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.
Both Scriptures are true. The relative is true and the absolute is true. They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."
Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."


Peace to you

Arcturus :)

brothertoall:

--- Quote from: Dwight on February 01, 2007, 05:59:05 PM ---When you ask the question, "when is scripture literal and when is it spiritual," do you mean when is scripture literal when I want it to be literal and when I want it to be spiritual?  If that is the real question, then we are all guilty because the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit.  The answer to this very difficult question has to be found in Christ and in Him alone.  The words that I speak to you are spirit.  They cannot be seen with the human eye.  How many times have we read a chapter or verse and never really understood it.  Then one day that same chapter or verse becomes clear as crystal or you see something in that you never saw before?  When Peter told Jesus that He is the Christ the Son of the living God, Jesus said flesh and blood hath not revealed unto thee but My Father which is in heaven.

When we read the scriptures with our mind, we see absolutely nothing but we get deceived and think that we know something and then use it for our own interpretation.  But when God reveals it to us it is life and truth.  Like the two trees in the garden of Eden, one tree led to their death and the other Tree led to life.  It just depends on which tree we eat; we can eat of good and evil or we can eat of life.  Jesus said, except you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no part in me.  How do we eat Him and how do we drink Him?  Only one way...in spirit and in truth.  Where is that to be found?  The words that speak to you, they are spirit and they are truth.  The only words that we have from Jesus are the scriptures.  But we must be careful because even Satan knows the scriptures and even tempted our Lord with them. 

Look at all of us these past months and all that God has revealed to us...are we worthy?  No.  But for some reason, it pleases our merciful God to reveal them to us by His Spirit.  How many thousands have read Ray's papers and have not seen a thing.  Blessed are our eyes for we are seeing things that even the prophets desired to look into.  May the Lord continue to open our eyes by His Spirit!  The literal profits nothing.

In His Name,

Dwight

--- End quote ---


Dwight you have hit the nail on the head. Thank you brother. It is the Spirit that will give us the spiritual understanding. Not just in my flesh to pick and choose what scripture I can use to justify my selfish way of thinking. Hey I have a long way to go so prayers would be very much appreciated and I will pray for you all as well.

 Arcturus I did not mean anything disrespectfdul or mean by that word "but". I would really like to know what the other members here think. I always enjoy and learn from all here but it just seems that maybe the other members here that seldom post or just read may feel a little intimidated and if I have made any of them feel that way please forgive me.

 I do believe that God is working in all of us here and I really would appreciate and be blessed to know what the others are experiencing. I do believe all of us here should want that too.

bobby

brothertoall:

--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on February 01, 2007, 06:50:06 PM ---Bobby,

Was Christ really crucified or is that not to be taken literally?


His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

--- End quote ---

Of course it is literal Joe but I new that before being revealed the truth. It is the Spiritual I now see in all this Joe. Even Babylon knows it was literal but they are not seeing the spiritual.


Romans 8:1-16


1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


bobby

hillsbororiver:
Hi Bobby,

I am glad to hear you that you see that the literal events have an application to understanding the deeper spiritual truths that they illustrate and represent. 

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

ciy:
The old covenant was physical, the new covenant is spiritual.  The new covenant over rules the old.  You must become a new creation in order to see and hear the new.  It all is physical until you have eyes to see and ears to hear and then it becomes spiritual to you.

As a man thinkeths in his heart so is he.

 First the flesh Adam, translating it in the physical, then the spirit Adam, a quickening spirit.  When Jesus came to the wedding and there was not enough spirit or wine then he took the word (water) that they had been disregarded as anything other than water (dead letter) and when Jesus touched it he turned it to wine (spirit).  Just like that parable, whatever Jesus says do it and the scriptures will all be turned into spiritual and not some worn out physical meaning. 
Hope this is ok to post.
CIY

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