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spirit and soul
Seek and Find:
You answer your own question (He is spirit, (John 4:24) 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. We do not have life inherent we are flesh and blood we have to eat, drink, sleep and everything in between. One thing I have learned man is the only creature that God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. With God there is no past, present or future. They are all one and the same to God so when God says (Let Us make man in Our image) God sees us as we will be. We will be born again as a spirit. As flesh and blood we have only a earnest (down payment) of the Spirit. This here opens a lot of scriptures (calls those things which do not exist as though they did).
Genesis 1
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them
Romans 4
17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did.
John 3
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.
2 Corinthians 1
20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Peace in Christ
Steve
Sorin:
--- Quote from: hart4god ---anyway- I am no genius when it comes to posting, but I think we probably need to understand that our life-giving spirit from God is not of the same properties as God is Spirit. God is not like us.
--- End quote ---
I think that nails it. Our life-giving spirit [breathe of life] is not of the SAME PROPERTIES as God. That's why God even though He is Spirit has consciousness and we don't or our spirits don't.
josh:
Buddyjc,
You state:
"My question was since God is spirit, and the spirit does not have consciousness of itself, then how can God be conscious?"
What is the scriptural witness for this?
Grace and Peace.
Josh
buddyjc:
--- Quote from: In Medias Res on February 05, 2007, 02:01:56 PM ---Buddyjc,
You state:
"My question was since God is spirit, and the spirit does not have consciousness of itself, then how can God be conscious?"
What is the scriptural witness for this?
Grace and Peace.
Josh
--- End quote ---
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
The spirit goes back to God who gave it, and the dead know not anything, so the spirit does not have consciousness of itself.
The reason I ask the question in the first place is because of certain Scripture that says, 'His spirit was troubled.' Why doesn't it say 'His soul was troubled?'
Gen 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
Job 21:4 As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?
Dan 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
The word 'spirit' in these passages is 'ruach' and not 'nephesh.' It is these passages that are being used to prove that we 'go to heaven' and 'experience bliss.' This is why the question is asked, in order to answer another that has asked the question of me.
josh:
Buddyjc,
Let me start off by saying that I am not attempting to challenge you, but rather, I am hopefully providing you dialogue that will help us both reach a better understanding of this topic.
Ecc. 9:5, 9:10, make some interesting statements:
"...there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest..."
"...the dead know not any thing..."
However, I do not believe these verses are can be used to prove that "the spirit has no consciousness of itself"... the spirit returns to God, it does not go to the grace (where there is no work, device, knowledge, or wisdom.)
Now look at Eccl. 12:7:
"...then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it..."
Let me ask you a question. Is the spirit we have now and when we die will return to God, the same spirit we will have in the resurrection?
Grace and Peace.
Josh
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