> General Discussions
spirit and soul
M_Oliver:
--- Quote from: In Medias Res on February 05, 2007, 02:01:56 PM ---Buddyjc,
You state:
"My question was since God is spirit, and the spirit does not have consciousness of itself, then how can God be conscious?"
What is the scriptural witness for this?
Grace and Peace.
Josh
--- End quote ---
Hopefully I was not dreaming but I have memory of Ray saying or writing this. I think it was a tangent comment and he was not pointing to Scripture at the time so I can't help you there...
Mark
sansmile:
Let me ask you a question. Is the spirit we have now and when we die will return to God, the same spirit we will have in the resurrection?
Grace and Peace.
Josh
Josh, still working out how to quote what someone said??? So that is why i have posted above part of what you said.
What springs to my mind is this scripture:
(Jer 1:5) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
So, that to me says, He knew us before He even breathed that breath into us, so He will know when and how and how to resurrect that spirit back??? What do others think??
Sandie
M_Oliver:
What GOOD would it be for us to experience evil in this lifetime if we don't remember a darned thing when we are resurrected? I remember a thread some time ago about this topic. I think it was agreed that we retain this experience.
Mark
sansmile:
Oliver, i would agree, but those that are of the elect will rule, because they have recognised and learned from His chastening. Was talking to hubby about this last night. Imagine, what is going to be like for for those that believe in eternal hell! Waking from sleep, then being told they will go through the lake of fire, imagine their fear, they will think it is for eternity. Imagine their thankfulness and how they WILL worship Him (every knee shall bow) that saves them from that. After Jesus's rule on earth, there willl be NO memory of pain and suffering, because ALL will BE in Him, Our Father. Awesome!!!
Love Sandie x
buddyjc:
--- Quote from: In Medias Res on February 06, 2007, 11:58:25 AM ---http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3253.0.html
Ray-
Good work. Would you clarify 2 things for me?
1. If languages/tongues come forth in genos/ones birth language, why do they need interpretation? Doesn't the need for interpretation suggest that there may be a language discernable only by the spirit (by a spiritual/prophetic interpreter)?
2. As Sheol is the grave, and we are dead and unperceiving when in it, how do we reconcile Luke saying Jesus' spirit went right up to Heaven while His body remained in the earth? I always thought this indicated that when we die our bodies await resurrection, but our spirits go to be with God. What am I missing?
Please respond, but thanks, either way,
Lisa
Dear Lisa:
The answer to your question on languages/tongues is found in I Cor. 14:22--"Wherefore languages/tongues are for a sign, NOT to them that believe, but to them THAT BELIEVE NOT...."
There is your answer. The Church uses "speaking in tongues" as a SIGN UNTO THEMSELVES, at their own meetings where they are not in the company of strangers who do not believe, for the most part. Now then, Lisa, if as you suggest these languages/tongues were something other than REAL LANGUAGES used by real people on this earth, then how, pray tell, could the be a "SIGN" to the to those who "believe not?" Would they believe that some "mumbo jumbo" tongue was a miracle from God? NO! But if someone not knowing any foreign languages could speak to those of a foreign language IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE, then it would serve as a "SIGN" from God. But none of the congregation would benefit from it unless there was someone TO INTERPRET for their "edification, exhortation, and comfort" (Ver. 3).
Your second question. No, sheol is not the grave. There is another word for grave. Sheol is the "state" or "realm" or "condition" of the dead. And the spirit is not the soul. The spirit does not have consciousness. The spirit cannot think thoughts, and that is why our "thoughts perish" at death according to David. Our spirit as well as Christ Spirit had to be reunited with a BODY before we or He would have consciousness again. Jesus was DEAD for three days, not "absent from the body" for three days.
God be with you,
Ray
Quoted: http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,655.0.html
Ray,
I am new to searching for my spiritual beliefs. I agree with you that we will not spend eternity in torture. My question is - I think I under stand the definition of reincarnation now. Are you saying that our spirit will become a new being? Maybe more than once until we ascend to heaven to be with GOD. I read that, are spirit will no nothing. Does that mean after one new life to the next our spirit will not remember any of the thing that have happened to us.
To me if we don't retain anything it would be pointless.
I am not saying that is what you meant I'm just asking.
I think every spirit is on a journey and will eventually be with GOD in the end.
I think our lives here are so we can learn feel and experience good and evil. When we are ready to go to heaven is when we learn that evil is bad and don't want it anymore so we can live eternally in good in heaven. Could you tell me your thoughts on this.
thanks, Aaron
Dear Aaron:
You are not paying attention to my writings. The consciousness is not in the body, and it is not in the spirit. The consciousness of man is in his soul, and his soul is resultant outcome of our spirit being united with a body. God breathed the breath and spirit of life into the man formed from the dust of the ground, and the man then BECAME a living soul. He BECAME conscious of his own being. At death we are no longer conscious of our being or our death. Our spirit must be reunited with a new body in resurrection before we will regain the soul and consciousness that we had before we died.
God be with you,
Ray
Quoted: http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,240.0.html
Ray,
I enjoy your writings. I have been studying you writings for several months. Trying the Spirits if you will. I love the way you use scripture after scripture.
In installment 16 part C of the lake of fire series section "Satan's Trinity of Man" you condemn the idea of the Body, Soul, and Spirit being 3 separate things. In all of your writings it seems that you feel that the flesh and soul are the same in which you have a lot of convincing scripture. Please explain 2 Thess 5:23 where the body, soul, and spirit are listed separately as 3 separate things. Also in Heb 4:12 the joints and marrow (flesh) soul and spirit are divided by the sword of the of the word of God.
Thanks
Walan
Dear Waylan:
It is true that we all speak of "THE soul" as if there is a separate entity inside of our body that is called "the soul." Not true. Without the spirit there is NO SOUL. Without the body there is NO SOUL. Take a blue piece if transparent plastic or cellophane. Place it half way over a same size piece of yellow cellophane. You will have blue on one side, yellow on the other, and GREEN in the middle. The blue is the body, the yellow is the spirit, and the GREEN IS THE SOUL. Notice that there is NO SOUL without the blue body and the yellow spirit. Separate the blue and yellow cellophane and the GREEN soul disappears. This is exactly how the human soul must be combined with a body and spirit, or IT DOES NOT EVEN EXIST. They are very closely related and appear to overlap, but there are distinction between soul and spirit. Understood? Good.
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Exactly! And this is the reason for the question concerning SCRIPTURE that says, 'His SPIRIT was trouble or grieved.' It does not say the man's 'soul' was troubled, but his 'spirit' was troubled. My son and I were discussing dichotomy and trichotomy. These passages came up. My son is pretty sharp, and I need to explain these passages.
Brian
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