Question - from an e-mail to Ray

[Patrick]

 Question
« on: January 31, 2007, 07:14:44 PM » 

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    Dear Ray,
     
    Thank you for your ministry. I had not intended to write until I have completed reading all on your website.  However I have been asked a question and would value your input......     
     
    My understanding of the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ is that He was fully God and fully man throughout His life on earth - but that He set aside His will / His glory etc and only said and did that which He head from or say the Father do.  In other words He could have performed all the miracles etc etc in and of Himself but only did / said everything  through the Spirit of the Father  - Thy will not mine be done - showing us how it to man should live - how to "be perfect as you Father in heaven is perfect..."...ie "to will and to do His good purpose".
     
    I have been asked about Phil 2 vvs 8-9...   And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
    Phl 2:9   Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name..., I have been told that this means that "when He became a man, He ceased to be God". I cannot reconcile this with any Scripture - and would value your comments.
     
    Kind regards
     
    Elizabeth
     

    Dear Elizabeth:
    I'm afraid this is one of those questions that it would first take ten pages to explain what we mean
by "God." What constitutes "God?" Was Jesus "God?' when He was in the flesh? ETc., etc., etc.,   etc. 

I see not only this, but also
1Pe 3:15  But1161 sanctify37 the Lord2962 God2316 in1722 your5216 hearts:2588 and1161 be ready2092 always104 to give an answer4314, 627 to every man3956 that asketh154 you5209 a reason3056 of4012 the3588 hope1680 that is in1722 you5213 with3326 meekness4240 and2532 fear:5401

1Pe 3:15 DRB  But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.

1Pe 3:15 RV  but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:

1Pe 3:15 YLT  and the Lord God sanctify in your hearts. And be ready always for defence to every one who is asking of you an account concerning the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

It seems like the "giving an answer to everyone asking" opens up into so many different questions that would take 10 pages to explain.


"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US"  (Matt. 1:23).  Well now, was Jesus "a man with us" or "GOD with us?" Some claim that Jesus WAS THE FATHER IN FLESH. Makes one wonder who in the world Jesus prayed to if that were the case?  Did He pray to HIMSELF?  On the other hand, there are now those trying to deceive bible-truth.com readers into believing that Jesus was so totally FLESH, that "He was MADE SIN" rather than made "a sin OFFERING."  Jesus was a MAN with the MIND OF GOD. Jesus "emptied" (Phil. 2:5, "But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and WAS [Greek for 'was' means "EMPTIED"]...." My margin says: "emptied himself of His privileges."  Jesus gave up many of His prior privileges when He was made a littler lower than the angels for the express purpose of being able to DIE (Heb. 2:9).  Notice that He was "crowned with GLORY and honour," yet He gave up much of His glory in becoming human, and that is why He prayed that His Father would RESTORE
the glories that He had with His Father from before the foundation of the world (John 17:5). Etc.
     
    I'm sorry, but nearly 99% of all questions asked of me in emails are entirely too long for an email. I could easily spend a week or two researching and writing on this very question you ask. The Bible is not nearly as "simple" and Christians claim that it is.

Parables/hunting for treasure; Mat. 13:3, Mat. 13:44


It will probably take me 60 pages to explain Matt. 5:22 and Matt. 10:28 in my upcoming Installment on Hell Part D. The more difficult Scriptures and concepts (as the one you just asked me), are tied to every other Scripture and concept in the entirety of the Bible. People have no concept of absolutely how PRECISE one must be in his words and explanations of these things, or it will contradict some verse somewhere.

How true!!


Maybe God has given me an ability to make difficult things understandable and seemingly "simple." 

Thank God!

Nothing, however, is SIMPLE in the Scriptures.

So many want a 3 step, 5 step, 7 step program, whatever for everything. I was so guilty of this myself. I wanted the answers and results NOW.

If it were, not every major doctrine of Christendom would be UNscriptural.  Hope you understand.
    God be with you,
    Ray

Understanding and believing the Sovereignty of God AND judgement is temporary was very difficult for me.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Patrick

The scriptures you quote : 1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.

1Pe 3:15 RV  but sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord: being ready always to give answer to every man that asketh you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, yet with meekness and fear:

1Pe 3:15 YLT  and the Lord God sanctify in your hearts. And be ready always for defence to every one who is asking of you an account concerning the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Being READY to always satisfy, being READY always to give an answer and be READY for defence is not indicating an obligation to either answer, satisfy or defend. Sometimes Ray posts an e-mail communication that has no reply given.

Jesus answered the Pharisees  with a question that offered neither an answer, satisfaction or self defence and He often answered with most unsatisfactory replies.  Luke 20 : 7,8 So they replied that they did not know from where it came. 8. Then Jesus said to them, neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

See also the excellent article You Fools You Hypocrites You Snakes! By Ray Smith for much more insight on this subject.

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Patrick]

Arcturus, sorry if I did not get my point across; not very good with words.
Or maybe you understood my point and you are just giving another view? I was not able to tell by your response.

I know those versus are NOT saying we are obligated to answer, satisfy or defend; being ready is the key to those versus.
My point being, this is not an easy/simple journey (by design). It's always, "well, what about this scripture or what about that scripture." For example, try giving an answer regarding "the origin of sin" when the asking person does not understand God's Sovereignty, or the Lucifer hoax.

This journey (in my case anyway) of being ready has peeks and valleys; I struggle to reach the top and then God drags me back down in the valley and I must struggle back up again (all by design).



Peace out.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Patrick

I am always just giving another view! and I apologise that it did appear to me that your point was in criticism of Ray not giving the correspondent a 10 page reply!

I am happy and greatful that you cleared up my mis-understanding. Thank you.

I agree with your observations regarding the unending line up of questions that can unravel from a person who has not taken or been given by God to understand the basics and foundation upon which we believe God is Sovereign and Christ is His Son and our Lord.

Just one point though... you say you must struggle back up again.....from my point of view...God is with you all the way! ...not that I say you doubt it, just that I say I see it....from my point of view that is!

Peace to you

Arcturus

[Patrick]

Hello Patrick

I am always just giving another view! and I apologise that it did appear to me that your point was in criticism of Ray not giving the correspondent a 10 page reply!

I am happy and greatful that you cleared up my mis-understanding. Thank you.

I agree with your observations regarding the unending line up of questions that can unravel from a person who has not taken or been given by God to understand the basics and foundation upon which we believe God is Sovereign and Christ is His Son and our Lord.

Just one point though... you say you must struggle back up again.....from my point of view... God is with you all the way! ...not that I say you doubt it, just that I say I see it....from my point of view that is!

Peace to you

Arcturus

Thanks for your view, Arcturus.
I don't doubt God is with me all the way. Struggling (struggle; N, an act of strongly motivated striving; IV,  to proceed with difficulty or with great effort) is how God has me growing at this time, it's not a bad thing.
I did state God drags me back down in the valley (has to be with you to drag you), I failed to state He is with me in my struggle back up as well.
Mat. 11:28-30 taking up My yoke makes it easier .

Peace out (having a 70's flash back)

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hello Patrick

That word "struggle" is quite interesting. I can only find it once and it appears in the past tense in Ge 25 : 22  Two children struggled together within her...

H 7533 raw-tsata; a prim. Root; to crack in pieces, lit. or gif: - break, bruise, crush, discourage, oppress, struggle together.

Peace to you
Arcturus

[Patrick]

"Struggle"

Joh 18:36

(DRB)  Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would certainly strive that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now my kingdom is not from hence.

(KJV+)  Jesus2424 answered,611 My1699 kingdom932 is2076 not3756 of1537 this5127 world:2889 if1487 my1699 kingdom932 were2258 of1537 this5127 world,2889 then would my1699 servants5257 fight,75, 302 that2443 I should not3361 be delivered3860 to the3588 Jews:2453 but1161 now3568 is2076 my1699 kingdom932 not3756 from hence.1782

(RV)  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

(YLT)  Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.'

G75
ἀγωνίζομαι
agōnizomai
ag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
From G73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or generally (to endeavor to accomplish something): - fight, labor fervently, strive.


G73
ἀγών
agōn
ag-one'
From G71; properly a place of assembly (as if led), that is, (by implication) a contest (held there); figuratively an effort or anxiety: - conflict, contention, fight, race.

effort
Main Entry: ef·fort
Pronunciation: 'e-f&rt, -"fort
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Old French esfort, from esforcier to force, from ex- + forcier to force
Date: 15th century
1 : conscious exertion of power : hard work
2 : a serious attempt : TRY
3 : something produced by exertion or trying <the novel was her most ambitious effort>
4 : effective force as distinguished from the possible resistance called into action by such a force
5 : the total work done to achieve a particular end <the war effort>

Pronunciation Key

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[Deborah-Leigh]

Quite correct Patrick.

Fight and struggle are defined as you have pointed out.

When reading the text you found to add to this study : RV)  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.  

I am not comfortable to intechange the word fight with the word struggle to read....Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants struggle (not fight) that I should not be delivered to the Jews;.......

To fight and to struggle do not mean the same thing for me. 

Peace to you

Arcturus