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Author Topic: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)  (Read 9711 times)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2007, 08:06:19 AM »

What IS sin?

1 JOHN 3 : 4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law; for sin is the transgression of the law.

I am not sinless....yet.... I am subject still to failure, weakness and liability to temptation and therefore dependent on Christ.

Peace to you

Arcturus  :)
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YellowStone

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2007, 09:32:25 AM »

Great discussion people :)

I have read many truths in this thread. Yes, sin is a sin is a sin, because we ARE sinning machines.

However,  we all live according to Gods will; if one see's an action as sinful and one doesn't, then it is by the perspective that God alone has given them, lest any should boast.

So my good friends, let us not focus on the negative of sin, but rather on love which is in the greatest two commandments. :)

Praise be to God and be gracious to him for everything.

Love,
Darren
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 09:35:55 AM by YellowStone »
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2007, 12:39:57 PM »

There is a difference for those still in the flesh and those with Christ in them.
With Christ living in you, you are no longer a sinning machine, because you are set free from sin.
I am not saying you do not sin any more,
but I do not believe it is a constant struggle against it anymore either.
It is used by God as a teaching tool only to perfect those in Christ.
The world is still having 'an evil experience,' but not those in Christ.
Paul speaks a great deal about sin starting in Rom. 5 - 8.

Rom 8:1-2  There is, then,  now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;  for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death; (YLT-Young‘s Literal Trans.)
3-4  What the Law could not do, because human nature was weak, God did.  He condemned sin in human nature by sending His own Son, who came with a nature like our sinful nature, to do away with sin.  God did this so that the righteous demands of the Law might be fully satisfied in us who live according to the Spirit, and not according to human nature. (GNB)
3-4 [repeat in different trans.]  For what the law was not able to do because it was feeble through the flesh, God, sending his Son in the image of the evil flesh, and as an offering for sin, gave His decision against sin in the flesh:  So that what was ordered by the law might be done in us, who are living, not in the way of the flesh, but in the way of the Spirit. (BBE-Bible in Basic English)
5-9  People who are ruled by their desires think only of themselves.  Everyone who is ruled by the Holy Spirit thinks about spiritual things.   If our minds are ruled by our desires, we will die.  But if our minds are ruled by the Spirit, we will have life and peace.    Our desires fight against God, because they do not and cannot obey God's laws.   If we follow our desires, we cannot please God.   You are no longer ruled by your desires, but by God's Spirit, who lives in you. People who don't have the Spirit of Christ in them don't belong to Him. (CEV)
10-11  But if Christ is in you, though your body must die because of sin, yet your spirit has Life because of righteousness.  And if the Spirit of Him who raised up Jesus from the dead is dwelling in you, He who raised up Christ from the dead will give Life also to your mortal bodies because of His Spirit who dwells in you. (WNT)
12-14  So, then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh;   for if according to the flesh ye do live, ye are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live;; for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God; (YLT)

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2007, 01:31:27 PM »

I believe that what Ray meant by we are "sinning machines" is that no one is yet sinless.

We may be set free from sin but we are still in flesh bodies being consecrated and sacrificed to God. We know that this condition is not yet finalised because The Resurrection has not yet come.  In the meantime we are in formation transformation.

Romans 12 1 I I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of all the mercies of God, to make a decisive dedication of your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service and spiritual worship.


As I see this, this service and worship is not a once off in this life time but is ongoing into the next as Paul begs of us and shows us how we are to proceed.

I believe to stop at the assumption that now we are free is to invite illusion and discharge of watchfulness. This can lean over into the heresy of once saved always saved assumptions and spiritual tiredness. In caution against this ever happening I believe we are not free yet in the fullest terms. the time to relasx is not come yet.

We are free in Christ's fullness of life and this experience is our joy while yet in trials in this life. HIS life is free and we can and should believe it and can and should believe HIM who completes us and in His coming to perform just that, we have our hope.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 01:33:45 PM by Arcturus »
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Kat

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2007, 03:38:34 PM »

Hi Arcturus,

Quote
I believe to stop at the assumption that now we are free is to invite illusion and discharge of watchfulness. This can lean over into the heresy of once saved always saved assumptions and spiritual tiredness. In caution against this ever happening I believe we are not free yet in the fullest terms. the time to relasx is not come yet.

I understand your caution, and in no way am implying we should not be watchful or can sit back and relax, because we think we are secure.
If Christ is in us, this would not be our additude anyway  ;)
But for those with Christ's Spirit were are not struggling with sin, as those in the flesh do.
This email of Ray's seems to make this point.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2159.0.html ---------------------

Hi Ray,

Thank you for helping me to understand so many things through your teaching.  I'll keep it short.  I am still carnal, sin still has dominion over me, rather than the other way around.  I long for things to be different but that's the way it is in my life.  Seeing as I believed 'another gospel' for most of my life, I can't really say I was filled with God's Spirit.  My question is this: was Peter only converted once he was filled with the Holy Spirit?  Is that when a person is no longer dominated by sin?

Thank you kindly for you time,

Amy


Dear Amy:
I think that all professing Christians who are sincere make some progress in their lives in stopping certain sins. But having your mind converted so that you no longer desire sin at all, is a diferent matter. It cannot be accomplished except by God's Spirit.  Many are CALLED and put certain things into practice and stop certain old habbits, but FEW ARE CHOSEN which completely turn their lives over to God so that sin no longer reigns over them.  This is not something I can tell you or teach you how to do. It will be done when it's God's time to do it.
God be with you,
Ray
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2007, 03:57:08 PM »

Hello Kat

Ray points out ; It will be done when it's God's time to do it.....and when it is done in God's time...then all the do's and don'ts will be CONSEQUENCES  and not GOALS!

This, for me is very important. If we look at the scripture instructions and promises as being what God's Will, that will be done....then
just take the Scriptures you were inspired to write on this thread as bieng what will be our inheritance one day because of Jesus Christ! This inheritance that He shares is what we will be and you can get pretty happy about it and very much more expectant for His return! 8)

I am glad you understood that my caution was against slumber land of the soul that looses sight of this hope we do well to guard as a deposit entrusted to us....and which we all will guard because God wills us to guard it, and we will be what God wills us to be....and as Ray writes that this will be done!

Heb 5 : 11 Concerning this we have much to say which is hard to explain, since you have become dull in your spiritual hearing and sluggish even slothful in achieving spiritual insight...... this tells me that one day we will be sharp in our spiritual hearing and vital and energised and we will enjoy spiritual insight!......a consequence....not a goal.....a hope and a reward for the chosen!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 04:40:15 PM by Arcturus »
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YellowStone

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2007, 06:45:21 PM »

Once again I will attempt to put my two cents worth in.

I must say that I am becomming a little discouraged :(

I wrote in good faith the following a few posts back, yet no one seen fit to respond to it.

However, we all live according to Gods will; if one see's an action as sinful and one doesn't, then it is by the perspective that God alone has given them, lest any should boast.

So my good friends, let us not focus on the negative of sin, but rather on love which is in the greatest two commandments.

Praise be to God and be gracious to him for everything


I will be open and honest here, and if a moderator decides this message should be removed then so be it. However, my brothers and sisters. It is my opinion that in the quest for spiritual enlightenment, many are seemingly no longer seeing the beauty of the forest because there are SO many trees in the way.

The forest is so full of God's love for us. Before one begins to "correct" a single sentence that is written (incorrectly in their eyes) why not first comment on the rest of the post and provide encouragement? Is not what I posted what it is all about?

Are we building each other up, or are we more focused on getting ones point across. I have read this entire thread and I do not find any misinterpretations of Scripture which is great; however, please never, ever let thae fact that God sacrificed his only begotten Son in order that any sin ever comitted will be forgiven and that no person shall ever truly die.

God has provided a Wonderful place in which we can fellowship together and lift one another up; so let us always praise God for everthing he has given us.

I want to close this with a Scripture and few worrds from Kahlil Gibran. :)

1Jo 4:16
    [li]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.[/li]
    [/list]

    Love gives naught but itself and takes naught from itself.
    Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; fr love is sufficient unto love.

    When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather "I am in the heart of God."
    And think not not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

    Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
    But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
       To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
       To know the pain of too much tenderness
       To be wounded by your own understanding of love; and to bleed willingly and joyfully.
       To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
       To rest at the noon hour and meditate in loves ecstacy;
       To return home at eventide with gratitude;
       And then to slepp with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise on your lips.

    Kahlil Gibran - The Prophet, 1923

    So my beloved brothers and sisters, God is the forest and we are in him  :)  Let us never become to focused on a single tree at the expense of the warm loving sunshine, filtering down through the trees, etc, etc.

    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    I pray that no one is offended by this post.

    Love from a brother,
    Darren
    « Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 06:55:08 PM by YellowStone »
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    Robin

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    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #27 on: February 10, 2007, 09:33:18 PM »

    Darren.

    I always appreciate your posts. I would hope that my posts never appear to be a judgment of others. That is never a thought in my mind when posting. I try to share from my personal experience and not from my own interpretation of what a scripture means. I believe we are witnesses of what God has done in our lives. If I've witnessed it myself I feel free to share about it. I purposely do not post on topics that would cause me to come up with my own interpretation. I've been wrong too many times to risk that unless it's a question I might need to ask and share what I believe to receive correction if needed.

    With that said I would like to comment on what Kat posted using my personal experience again.

    Right before leaving the church around 15 years ago I was involved in a bible study. The study was on the book titled "They Found the Secret" by V. Raymond Edman

    Book Description
    This book presents the lives of twenty well-known and little-known Christians in search of the pattern which leads to the abundant life Jesus promised.

    From the Back Cover
    "The exchanged life." Hudson Taylor first used the term to describe what it means to know Christ as our sufficiency in all things. Taylor is but one of the many Christian luminaries who have discovered Christ as the secret to abundant living. John Bunyan, Andrew Murray, Amy Carmichael, Oswald Chambers, Charles Finney-behind the varied lives and personalities of these and other men and women lies a common theme, a pattern that leads from desperation to the abundant life Jesus promised. From their stories, we too can find the path to deeper faith and a more vital relationship with God. In They Found the Secret, Raymond Edman presents the lives of twenty well-known and little-known Christians. "The details of their experience of the crisis of the deeper life are delightfully different," Edman writes, "yet their testimony to the reality of the joy and power of the Spirit-filled life is unanimous . . . It is [the Lord] who satisfies the longing soul. He is the secret of the exchanged life!"



    The teaching in the book was that we are dead to sin and no longer enslaved by it. We exchange our life for Christ's life in us and walk in newness of life. All we have to do is appropriate all that Christ has already done by faith. I was enslaved to sin in a relationship when I was going through this study. God made it clear to me that he wanted me to leave the relationship and I just couldn't do it. I tried so hard. I started trying to appropriate being free from this sin by walking in the spirit instead of the flesh. I would say over and over again I am dead to sin and no longer have to live in it. I failed miserably therefore I was labeled as having no faith. God used my failure to teach me I had no free will and teach me that I was "the beast". I was torn between 2 desires. To please God and to have the love that I had always dreamed of having by staying in this relationship. I was being torn in half in a tug of war. God finally won that war and it had nothing to do with effort on my part. He put to death the canal mind and the desires that kept me in bondage.

    if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live

    This process has been more complicated than just appropriating a truth by faith. God put me through an intense process that dealt with the cause of my carnal desires that were causing my slavery to these particular sins. I am still going through an intense process.

    If our minds are ruled by our desires, we will die.  But if our minds are ruled by the Spirit, we will have life and peace.

    Somewhere Ray wrote or said that we do not have the freewill to change our desires. We can only choose from our desires or something close to that. Only God can change our desires. In my experience that means the death of my carnal mind and that has been a long process that is out of my control. I have been blind to most of it until God shows it to me. I can't fix what I can't see and even then I can't fix it. I confess it when God shows it to me. I tell him the truth about who I am and pray that his will be done. I confess that I grumble a lot through the process and I don't have life or peace yet. My mind is still ruled by carnal desires or I wouldn't be grumbling so much. I still smoke and have failed at many attempts to quit. My carnal mind still tries to save itself. I still must die.

    Romans 8:7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    I could write books about the work that God has completed in me. I am not the same person I used to be. I am a walking miracle. It still seems like a bottomless pit of carnal mind though. I am not content in all things. I grumble about a lot of things. I am not enduring suffering well. May God forgive me and bring me to repentance in all things.

    « Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 09:38:11 PM by M.G. »
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    YellowStone

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    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #28 on: February 10, 2007, 11:56:28 PM »

    M.G. What a wonderful post. This is what is so amazing to me about the truth. Not what will happen, but what IS happening to each and everyone of us NOW. :)

    I just cannot get this scripture out of my mind or my heart.

    Rom 1:20
    • For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    I certainly am no scholar so I may be very wrong with this reasoning, but I never read anywhere that one needed to read the Scriptures in order to know God? Is it there? I feel (andhow can I "feel" on my own?) that Christianity as a whole failed because egos and pride. This is a WONDERFUL site, and I am sure that many, many more visit this forum than ever post. This is so sad. Of course God has not led to post otherwise they surely would.

    I am beginning to realize that I have not let go of me nearly as much as I had thought. When have I ever thanked God in this forum for the air he gave me to breath today, or for the friends that I seen or made this week. God has given me everything I need and I have never been so gracious or grateful that he found me worthy to as part of this forum.

    We are within God, as much as he is within us. That is very sobering thought; how dare I feel prideful of what I have learned or accomplished? It is all to Him, he has taught me so much and like you, even when I wasn't ready or didn't want to.

    We are in God, yet we squabble over an interpretation of Scripture as if by some magic, we "reasoned" it out all on our own!  ::)

    I can totally relate to Davids following words.

    Psa 23:1 The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.
    Psa 23:2  color=Blue]He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. [/color]
    Psa 23:3  He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
    Psa 23:4  Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
    Psa 23:5  Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
    Psa 23:6  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

    We are all walking through the valley of the shadow of death....as brothers and sisters. Certainly their are many more knowledgable than I in Spiritual matters and I have learned ever so much from most everyone on the forum; like you M.G. I too have changed. I now know that God is everywhere and everything is in him and as David said: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

    Jhn 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    Jhn 13:35  By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    Others will surely see that we are indeed disciples of Christ through our love for each other.

    This is the truth as I see it, praise be to God.

    Love,
    Darren
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    Deborah-Leigh

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    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #29 on: February 11, 2007, 07:27:20 AM »

    Hello MG

    I see what you see.  8)

    Darren

    You note : I never read anywhere that one needed to read the Scriptures in order to know God?

    We are called to “Come out of her, my people so that you may not share in her sins, neither participate in her plagues.” Rev 18 : 4 this refers to Mystery Babylon reference Rev 18 : 2 ...that we understand to be Christendom where the Scriptures are preached 1 Cor 1 : 21 For after that in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    Looking at the scripture you posted, lets see what love means in the verses you presented.

    Jhn 13:34  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love ( Agapao  {25} All references are from Annotated Strong’s Greek Dictionary. It differes from phileo {5368} meaning to love indicating feelings, warm affection, the kind of love expressed by a kiss. The fut. Imper., agapeseis, especially in regard to one’s enemies, should not necessarily be taken to mean doing that which will please them, but choosing to show them favour and goodwill. In 2 Cor 12 : 15 it means, “even if, having conferred greater benefits on you, I receive less from you” ) one another; as I have loved ( Agapao) you, that ye also love (Agapao) one another.
    Jhn 13:35  By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love (Agape {26}  one to another.

    Phileo {5360} fraternal affection; - brotherly love, kindness, love of the brethren.  In the NT, used only of the love of Christians one to another, brotherly love out of a common spiritual life. Rom 12 : 10; 1Th 4 : 9 ; heb 13 :1 ; 1 Pe 1 :22; 2 Pe 1:7 In the NT only in the strictly Christian sense of loving each other as Christian brothers. 

    A quick search on the net reveals this regarding Kahlil Gibran :

    Juliet Thompson, one of Khalil Gibran's acquaintances, said that Gibran told her that he thought of `Abdu'l-Bahá, the divine leader of the Bahá'í Faith in his lifetime, all the way through writing The Prophet. `Abdu'l-Bahá's personage also influenced Jesus, The Son of Man, another book by Gibran.

    Gibran's best-known work is The Prophet, a book composed of 26 poetic essays. During the 1960s, The Prophet became especially popular with the American counterculture and New Age movements. The Prophet remains famous to this day, with passages often read at weddings and christenings.


    I think Gibran had his priorities back to front. Jesus Christ is the corner stone not Abdul ...whats his name? :D

    In reference to your comment : I must say that I am becomming a little discouraged

    I wrote in good faith the following a few posts back, yet no one seen fit to respond to it.

    Here is some wisdom from Joe that might help you : Don't ever be discouraged by those who think they know more than they do, the one lesson they can always teach is how not to be, how not to act. They also teach us how to provide a better example to others by us being steady, uplifting, forgiving and positive. Usually the exact opposite of what they may be displaying. All lessons for our betterment, all in developing the fruits of the spirit.

    There are many times I have been inspired to write on a particular subject, a powerful motivation that does not rest until I present the subject, I must admit there was a time it would frustrate me when the topic would only get a few responses then promptly fade into oblivion, then He revealed to me that sometimes these messages of ours (His really) are sometimes meant for only one or maybe a few readers who need that particular admonishment at that time in their walk and that it is not anything I should seek approval or confirmation of, if I seek these things my motivation needs a serious adjustment.


    Peace to you

    Arcturus  :)


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    Redbird

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #30 on: February 11, 2007, 08:29:56 AM »

    I also read "The Prophet" a couple of years ago, and thought it was a beautiful book.  In it he writes:

    Give your hearts, but not into eachother's keeping.  For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
    And stand together, yet not too near together;  For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
    And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in eachother's shadow.

    For me, Jesus, is this hand of Life.

    Love, Lisa
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    Deborah-Leigh

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    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #31 on: February 11, 2007, 09:10:05 AM »


    Here is how I see this and no one  has to agree. I post this simply to SHARE what I see.

    I have studied the work of Gibran. In fact I once was acquainted with Gibrans first cousins. I can empathise with the appeal of Gibrans work but I CAN ALSO REJECT THIS FEEL GOOD APPEAL AS DECEPTION.

    I can see that it is a beautiful sentiment to believe that Jesus is the hand of life AND even though it sounds very appealing and feels poetically correct it is more true to know that Jesus is the way the truth and THE Life! ..not just a hand as Gibran may project in his writings. Gibran diminishes Christ with feel good poetic licence, with which he  tries to counterfeit Christ without repentance or acknowledgment of His Sovereignty. Gibrans sentimentality appeals to the world and therein lies the subtelty and danger signs.

    John 15 : 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    The world loved and today still loves Gibran who plagiarized, copied from and counterfeited the word and wisdom of God by converting it into worldly wisdom that produced for him worldly gain. It is a pity that Gibran made merchandise of God's word. Unlike Ray who will not sell the inspirations and insights he freely receives from our Lord, Gibran not only plagiarized the word of God, he became adored as a hero for it and sold many books and received much notoriety. Gibran has his reward and as for his teachings, they more properly belong in Mystery Babylon where even Babylon finds use for them in its wedding ceremonies and christenings!

    I hope this perspective gives something to think about. It is not written in evaluation of your love Lisa and trust in Jesus that is very precious and visible  to me, in your post. I hope you understand.

    Gibran is clearly not of like mind with Ray who states his position here :

    1.      Whatever we teach must "glorify" God.

    "Glory to God in the highest ... " (Lk. 2:14).
     
    " ... that in all God may be glorified ... " (I Pt. 4:11).

    2.      Whatever we teach must not detract one iota from Christ's sacrifice for all humanity.

    "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time." (I Tim. 2:5-6)

    "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men [mankind], specially [not exclusively] to those that believe. These things command and teach." (I Tim. 4:10-11)


    Excerpt from : GOD IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ETERNAL FATE OF AFRICANS

    A Sermon by:

    James Kennedy, A.B., M.Div., M.Th., D.D.,
    D.Sac.Lit., PhD., Litt.D., D.Sac.Theol., D. Humane Let.

    A Critique by:  L. Ray Smith
     
    Peace to you

    Arcturus :)
    « Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 09:52:49 AM by Arcturus »
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    Redbird

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #32 on: February 11, 2007, 10:31:10 AM »

    Arcturus,

    You are so right, yes, of course, Jesus is THE WAY AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.  I strongly agree with you.  It's just that I still see beauty in many people, even if I do not agree with them 100%....

    Peace to you dear Sister.

    Lisa
    « Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 10:33:33 AM by Redbird »
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    Deborah-Leigh

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #33 on: February 11, 2007, 10:49:11 AM »

    You do well Lisa

     
    Phil 4 : 8...for whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

    Peace also to you dear sister

    Arcturus :)
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    YellowStone

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #34 on: February 11, 2007, 11:07:02 AM »

    Arcturus,

    Good morning my dear sister, God is surely at the center and the outside of my little world, because my world is in Him! :) So is yours. :)

    Where is your love? Is it to build up, to inspire or simply correct? Remember what I posted about the not seeing the forest; I was serious. Please, give me and many here likewise, some credit.   :'(

    I know that Gibran's work is not recognized by the church; but in turn is loved by many, many people. Myself included. It is a story, and the portion I presented here did tie in with the point I was trying to make; a point that I think was lost. :(

    You seem to forget that God speaks to us all in many and varied ways. I can see God in most everything (I am working on the remainder) :) I see the God of All in much of Gibran's writings because God has allowed me to do so. So what was it that was wrong with the text I posted of Gibran. It was I who posted it, as a witness to the point I was trying to make.

    It seems to me that so much thought and attention is placed on what is to come, that what we have today is totally over looked.

    What is it we have today? Everything! The good to enjoy, the puzzling to fathom and the bad to learn from, but my dear sister, we cannot do this alone; it is by praying constantly for God to open one's heart so that the walls of self righteous pride and understanding can be torn down, never to return. If we lean on our understanding, we will never make it!

    Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.  :)

    Where is your love (Agapao, Agape) Arcturus?

    This is what I wrote: (this time without Gibran)

    Are we building each other up, or are we more focused on getting ones point across. I have read this entire thread and I do not find any misinterpretations of Scripture which is great; however, please never, ever let thae fact that God sacrificed his only begotten Son in order that any sin ever comitted will be forgiven and that no person shall ever truly die.

    God has provided a Wonderful place in which we can fellowship together and lift one another up; so let us always praise God for everthing he has given us.

    I want to close this with a Scripture and few worrds from Kahlil Gibran.

    1Jo 4:16
    And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.


    Here is a question for you and all else who care to answer:

    Jhn 13:35  By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    Are we really being seen as disciples of Christ by others. My heart is sad, because I no longer see the love that this forum once had. :(

    Show me the Love. The same love that Jesus spoke about in the two verses above and I will see God. We will all then see God very clearly and others will see him in us. :)

    Praise be to God!!

    Love,
    Darren
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    Redbird

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #35 on: February 11, 2007, 12:01:00 PM »

    Arcturus,

    You left me a good thought for the day.  I understand where you are coming from, cuz I too was raised in the catholic church.  I thank God for your fellowship.  Your last post uplifted me and there is a little song in my heart for you today!  I see you as a very "strong tree", one might say "tough love"!

    Peace, Lisa

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    Deborah-Leigh

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #36 on: February 11, 2007, 12:38:45 PM »

    Hello Darren

    I will use Ray’s technique and comment through your post….

    Arcturus,

    Good morning my dear sister, God is surely at the center and the outside of my little world, because my world is in Him!  So is yours. 

    God is Spirit. God is everywhere and He knows everything! This is not who or where God is because my world is in Him. I am and you are because HE IS. God is not at the centre of all humanity. Satan is very much on the throne of most of humanity. Few are converted and many are called.

    Where is your love?

    My love is where God is. Where is yours?    ;)   (NO NEED TO ANSWER…RETORICAL QUESTION) :D

     Is it to build up, to inspire or simply correct?

    Lets first look at that word you use “build up”. Paul wrote 1 Cor 3 : 10, 11 According to the grace, the special endowment for my task of God bestowed on me, like a skilful architect and master builder I laid the foundation, and now another man is building upon it. (I see the other man as our teacher Ray) But let each man (you and I and others) BE CAREFUL how he builds upon it. 11 For NO OTHER FOUNDATION CAN ANYONE LAY  thand that which is already laid, which is JESUS CHIRST. (Hey, I am just following my Forman who is Paul and observing my teacher who is Ray the roofer!)   ;D

    Lets look at the other word you use….inspire….The closest word I could get to regarding this word is inspiration and that word is in 2 Tim 3 : 16 Every Scripture is God breathed, given by INSPIRATION and profitable for INSTRUCTION, for REPROOF and CONVICTION OF SIN, for CORRECTION OF ERROR and DISCIPLINE IN OBEDIENCE and for TRAINING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS in holy living in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose and action.

    Then you ask…or “simply to correct.” You have no clue how much time and reflection and training it is giving me to respond to some of the posts in the forum. There is NOTHING SIMPLE ABOUT IT!


     Remember what I posted about the not seeing the forest; I was serious. Please, give me and many here likewise, some credit.   

    Okay. I see that you are without doubt doing and saying to me exactly what God would have you write to me. You are in the plan Darren! 8)

    I know that Gibran's work is not recognized by the church; but in turn is loved by many, many people. Myself included. It is a story, and the portion I presented here did tie in with the point I was trying to make; a point that I think was lost. 

    Oh on the contrary. Your point was fully grasped!    ;D You just did not like the response.  :D

    You seem to forget that God speaks to us all in many and varied ways.

    You have to be kidding aren’t you!   ;D God does not change. What is many and varied is the opinions and heresies. You want proof? Look at how many denominations are in Christendom….over 3000!

    I can see God in most everything (I am working on the remainder)  I see the God of All in much of Gibran's writings because God has allowed me to do so. So what was it that was wrong with the text I posted of Gibran. It was I who posted it, as a witness to the point I was trying to make.

    Christ is my witness not Gibran. You decide what is wrong with that. When you meet God you explain your choice of witness. Gibran chooses Abdul and Darren chooses Gibran…can you see the foolishness of this? :D

    It seems to me that so much thought and attention is placed on what is to come, that what we have today is totally over looked.

    What is it we have today? Everything!

    You have to be kidding! EVERYTHING?.. THAT'S IT?. :D

    The good to enjoy, the puzzling to fathom and the bad to learn from, but my dear sister, we cannot do this alone; it is by praying constantly for God to open one's heart so that the walls of self righteous pride and understanding can be torn down, never to return. If we lean on our understanding, we will never make it!

    Neither will we make it if we lean on Gibrans understanding or Abdul what’s his name! ;D

    Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.   

    Where is your love (Agapao, Agape) Arcturus?

    You have said yourself….it is invisible….. ;D

    This is what I wrote: (this time without Gibran)

    Are we building each other up, or are we more focused on getting ones point across. I have read this entire thread and I do not find any misinterpretations of Scripture which is great; however, please never, ever let thae fact that God sacrificed his only begotten Son in order that any sin ever comitted will be forgiven and that no person shall ever truly die.

    I can not see scripture in that…..there is a second DEATH. Rev 2 : 11 “He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes, shall in no way be injured by the SECOND DEATH.” …..so you say Darren that no person shall ever truly die….Not true…not even close….but probably quite close to Gibrans way of “seeing” things.  

    God has provided a Wonderful place in which we can fellowship together and lift one another up; so let us always praise God for everthing he has given us.

    Yes…lets…even the trials of which I am obviously one to you!


    I want to close this with a Scripture and few worrds from Kahlil Gibran.

    1Jo 4:16
    And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    Here is a question for you and all else who care to answer:

    Jhn 13:35  By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    Are we really being seen as disciples of Christ by others. My heart is sad, because I no longer see the love that this forum once had. 

    DON’T BE SAD.

    Show me the Love.

    Sounds like…show me the money!....Only kidding…. :D
    Darren God is love. That you have no idea how much time, effort and joy I get in pondering the thoughts and scriptures that your digging encourages in me, is not my fault or error. You are truly a delight and I am being trained through your posts! Agreement is not my ambition. Approval of man is not my fuel either. ;D


    The same love that Jesus spoke about in the two verses above and I will see God. We will all then see God very clearly and others will see him in us. 

    GOD IS IN HIS WORD. IF HIS WORD IS IN US THEN HE TOO DWELLS IN US. GOD WILL NOT SHARE HIS HOUSE WITH SATAN AND NEITHER IS ANY DARKNESS FOUND IN HIM..…No one will see God until the resurrection. Only those who are pure in heart will see God. Matt 5 : 8 Blessed are the pure in heart; for THEY shall see God.

    Praise be to God!!

    Love,
    Darren

    Peace to you

    Arcturus
    :)
    « Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 01:08:06 PM by Arcturus »
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    Deborah-Leigh

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #37 on: February 11, 2007, 12:41:49 PM »

    Thank you for His fruit of joy you share with me Lisa..."strong tree" you say?...maybe....my bark is worse than my bite! ;D

    Peace to you

    Arcturus :)
    « Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 12:51:43 PM by Arcturus »
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    gmik

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #38 on: February 11, 2007, 12:45:26 PM »

    Darren, i hope you really don't mean you don't see the love on the forum like it once had.

    Arcturus did say "no one had to agree" and she posted what she thought.

    I feel there is a lot of love and respect on this forum.  I re read this thread and didn't comment cuz it was kinda too deep for me and in reality didn't hit me one way or another.  But thats just me.  I still liked reading all the comments.

    Darren I think you have been here as long as I.  We all don't have to agree 100% and yet can still love one another. Look at your posts on other threads.  You are loved indeed brother.
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    YellowStone

    • Guest
    Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
    « Reply #39 on: February 11, 2007, 01:28:35 PM »

    Arcturus :)

    I love your post. I mean it, I really do feel your love!  I don't agree with everything, but who cares!!!!  :))

    I will comment on the folowing:

    You seem to forget that God speaks to us all in many and varied ways.

    You have to be kidding aren’t you!    God does not change. What is many and varied is the opinions and heresies. You want proof? Look at how many denominations are in Christendom….over 3000!

    Ha! :)  I said God speaks, not Satan or Gibran or Ray or anyone. God speaks through, such as these. Certainly, some more often than others. Some speak truth even though they not know it; very much like a stopped clock, even it is correct twice a day. :)

    But I see where you are coming from. One should not ever replace the Word of God with the words of others. The words we chose to hold onto must always align with the Word of God. I think  you would agree with this.


    I can see God in most everything (I am working on the remainder)  I see the God of All in much of Gibran's writings because God has allowed me to do so. So what was it that was wrong with the text I posted of Gibran. It was I who posted it, as a witness to the point I was trying to make.

    Christ is my witness not Gibran. You decide what is wrong with that. When you meet God you explain your choice of witness. Gibran chooses Abdul and Darren chooses Gibran…can you see the foolishness of this?

    Arcturus, let us forget who said it, but what was said. Do you see anything untrue or just plain wrong in the words given? I believe you are stretching the truth a little when you say that I will stand before God and give all credit of my understanding to Gibran. :) Do you see the foolishness in that?  :D

    This is how God speaks in many varied ways. What is God saying to you when you see a pretty flower, a rainbow or a mother duck and her little ducklings crossing a road? See what I mean. :)


    It seems to me that so much thought and attention is placed on what is to come, that what we have today is totally over looked.

    What is it we have today? Everything
    !

    You have to be kidding! EVERYTHING?.. THAT'S IT?.

    Yep!! and I am not kidding :)   

    Please read the words of Matthew

    Mat 6:25 ¶
    Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

    Mat 6:26 
    Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? ]

    Mat 6:27 
    Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

    Mat 6:28 
    And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

    Mat 6:29 
    And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

    Mat 6:30 
    Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?

    Mat 6:31 
    Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

    Mat 6:32 
    (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

    Mat 6:33 
    But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


    Yes Arcturus, God has given me EVERYTHING I need and He is giving it to me when I need it. In his time, not mine. :) Surely you do not doubt this.


    Are we building each other up, or are we more focused on getting ones point across. I have read this entire thread and I do not find any misinterpretations of Scripture which is great; however, please never, ever let thae fact that God sacrificed his only begotten Son in order that any sin ever comitted will be forgiven and that no person shall ever truly die.

    I can not see scripture in that…..there is a second DEATH. Rev 2 : 11 “He who is able to hear, let him listen to and heed what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes, shall in no way be injured by the SECOND DEATH.” …..so you say Darren that no person shall ever truly die….Not true…not even close….but probably quite close to Gibrans way of “seeing” things

    I may not have this right, but either Christ will save all, or he will not. You cannot have it both ways. (Please tell me if any person will never see eternal life, for I truly might be wrong on this)

    1Ti 2:3 
    For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

    1Ti 2:4 
    Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth



    Show me the Love.

    Sounds like…show me the money!....Only kidding….
    Darren God is love. That you have no idea how much time, effort and joy I get in pondering the thoughts and scriptures that your digging encourages in me, is not my fault or error. You are truly a delight and I am being trained through your posts! Agreement is not my ambition. Approval of man is not my fuel either
    .

    Oh, I fully understand the effort that goes into responding to most of these posts. I certainly have never thought for a moment that you are any different. Nor do I think you post untruths!!  :)

    But this is what this discussion is all about. Let us first and foremost always thank the person for sharing their opinion or truth that has been given to them. Let us then comment on the part/s that we agree with, and only then let us seek to correct. (This is something I am going to try to do in everything from now on)

    I do not seek agreement, nor do I seek approval of man; however, if the words I write are not uplifting to a fellow seeker of truth, then neither am I seeking to please Christ. Does this make sense?


    God has provided a Wonderful place in which we can fellowship together and lift one another up; so let us always praise God for everthing he has given us.

    Yes…lets…even the trials of which I am obviously one to you!

    Touche   ;D

    You always make me think Arcturus that is for sure. I would never class you as a trial, but you do provide a challenge, so I guess you are right.

    I do love you my dear sister, and I have much to learn from you.

    Let us part as friends (hugs)

    Love,
    Darren
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