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Author Topic: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)  (Read 9396 times)

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marycee

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I hear many times Christians ask the question, "Is it a sin to do this or a sin to do that?"

Christians have the Spirit of God livingi in them Who leads them into all Truth. Sin to a Christian is falling short of obeying God's indwelling Spirit. It is not a cut and dried situation that man can give an answer to: Is this sin or is that sin. What may be a sin to one person is not sin to another. When people ask the question is something a sin, I like to ask them this:

1. Are you a believer that Christ died for all your sins?

2. Do you have the Spirit of God (Christ) in you?

3. Are you seeking to obey the indwelling Spirit as He leads you?

4. Do you study the Bible, particularly the New Covenant, to get the spirit of what is being said and then have a desire to obey the spirit of what is being said there as the Spirit quickens it to your heart?

5. Do you pray about all situations in your life, and pray especially diligently about difficult situations and decisions that you have to make? Only you know your particular situation and only God knows how to fix it!

6. Do you do your very best to obey what you believe to be the leading of the Holy Spirit in all matters?

7. Do you believe yourself dead unto sin and alive unto God as Romans 6 says?

8. Do you walk by faith?

9. When you fail, do you cast away any inner condemnation and insteadpray that God will direct you and lead you to more spiritual maturity?

If you do all these things, your spiritual life is going to be what God desires, and you will grow. If you live unto God, you do not have to worry about sin. (Romans 6:11)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 05:26:39 PM »

What I have learnt and believe from the insights taught at BT is that sin can be compartmentalised into three compartments, lust of the eyes, flesh and pride of life.

1 John  2 : 16 For all that is in the world – the lust of the flesh, craving for sensual gratification, and the lust of the eyes, greedy longings of the mind, and the pride of life, assurance in one’s own resources or in the stability of earthly things – these do not come from the Father but are from the world itself.

Any "to do list"  can quite neatly be fitted into the striving for assurance in one’s own doing? there are 1050 commandments in the NT of which can be reduced to some 800 that are not duplications of the same commandment. From this list many different "to do" lists can be formulated! No one can make the potter create the pot the way the clay would do it!

There is another yardstick by which sin’s three compartments can also be gauged. Do you believe that you have free will or not? Those who believe that they have free will should read the Myth of Free Will available on the home page. It is a real eye opener!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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marycee

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 05:32:43 PM »

If Christ lives in you, He is Lord. Compartmentalising sin is living under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, we obey the Lordship of Christ. That Lordship is based in the Love of God, Agape, which is to rule over the heart in all things.
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Falconn003

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 05:37:00 PM »

???

I do how ever enjoy the wonderful firey Spirit.

God bless

Rodger
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PKnowler

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 05:45:28 PM »

I agree with you Marycee that what may be a sin to one person is not sin to another. So it can be hard to give advice to other Christians regarding sin unless it is a universal sin. God judges the motives of our heart where others can't see. It is good to have a fellowship of believers you trust though to be able to bounce things off of. Sometimes it helps me to work through an issue if I can talk to someone about it.

Blessings, Paula  :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 06:47:39 PM »

Marycee

You wrote : If Christ lives in you, He is Lord. Compartmentalising sin is living under the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, we obey the Lordship of Christ. That Lordship is based in the Love of God, Agape, which is to rule over the heart in all things.

You have to be kidding us hey?  So where does Phileo love fit this rule of yours?....

Have you heard the latest teaching on love by Ray posted in the Announcements section? Listen and be amaized! It might change your mind!

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 06:51:21 PM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2007, 07:13:00 PM »

Paula

Your post says : I agree with you Marycee that what may be a sin to one person is not sin to another. So it can be hard to give advice to other Christians regarding sin unless it is a universal sin. God judges the motives of our heart where others can't see. It is good to have a fellowship of believers you trust though to be able to bounce things off of. Sometimes it helps me to work through an issue if I can talk to someone about it.

It is not relevant that what may be sin to one is not sin to another. What is relevant is what is sin to God. God's perspective is the all important one. The scripture quoted is Gods perspective. For me that is important! and not what you or I or anyone else says.

The teaching on the Myth of free will is the truth that unites us in like mindedness for those who agree that is and for those who have taken the time to read it. I am not saying that you haven't read it. Some read it and do not understand it. I am not saying you do not understand it either! I am saying that our like mindedness in this Forum is based on the fact that we agree with Ray's insights and teachings not one anothers insights and teachings.

Peace to you

Arcturus  :)
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John9362

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2007, 07:25:01 PM »

Thank you Arcturus for pointing this out:
in this Forum is based on the fact that we agree with Ray's insights and teachings not one anothers insights and teachings.

Love to all of you
John9362
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Kat

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 07:26:36 PM »

Hi Marycee,

When Christ's Spirit is indewelling, sin no longer has dominion over you.

Rom 6:3  Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
v. 4  We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
v. 6  We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
v. 7  For one who has died has been set free from sin.
v. 11  So you also must consider yourself dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
v. 12  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions.
v. 13  Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
v. 14  For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

That Spirit of Christ in the believers, will give you the strength you need to resist sin and when we stumble, He will chasten us to correct us.

1Co 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

It is only through Christ in us that we can live a life of overcoming sin in this world.

1Jo 4:4  You are of God, little children, and you have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat

« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 10:43:25 PM by Kat »
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Robin

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2007, 07:26:54 PM »

 Mark 7

18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.


 
Romans 2
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 Peter 4
 
1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Galatians 5

16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.



When I hit the great falling away that Ray speaks of the first thing I did was put every sin in thought, word, and deed under a microscope and my biggest question was How do I stop doing this? What I found out later is that there is nothing I could have done or can do to fix myself. I cannot be my own savior by the works of the law. God started the process of the circumcision or my heart through firey trials that still continue. My carnal mind must die. What I do and say and think are all friut.

Matthew 7
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

hewn
1. to strike forcibly with an ax, sword, or other cutting instrument; chop; hack.  
2. to make, shape, smooth, etc., with cutting blows: to hew a passage through the crowd; to hew a statue from marble.  
3. to sever (a part) from a whole by means of cutting blows (usually fol. by away, off, out, from, etc.): to hew branches from the tree.  
4. to cut down; fell: to hew wood; trees hewed down by the storm.  
–verb (used without object) 5. to strike with cutting blows; cut: He hewed more vigorously each time.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


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Sorin

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2007, 07:42:12 PM »

"Christians have the Spirit of God livingi in them Who leads them into all Truth. Sin to a Christian is falling short of obeying God's indwelling Spirit. It is not a cut and dried situation that man can give an answer to: Is this sin or is that sin. What may be a sin to one person is not sin to another. When people ask the question is something a sin, I like to ask them this:


Well said! What may be a sin to one person is not sin to another. ;)


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Sorin

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 07:51:29 PM »

I agree with you Marycee that what may be a sin to one person is not sin to another. So it can be hard to give advice to other Christians regarding sin unless it is a universal sin. God judges the motives of our heart where others can't see. It is good to have a fellowship of believers you trust though to be able to bounce things off of. Sometimes it helps me to work through an issue if I can talk to someone about it.



I agree with that. ;)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 08:05:01 PM by Sorin »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 08:06:18 PM »

From Lake of Fire Part 15 A



LOVE NOT THE WORLD—THREE CATEGORIES OF SIN

"Love NOT the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father IS NOT IN HIM. For [for means ‘because’] ALL that is in the world,

the lust of the FLESH,

the lust of the EYES,

and the pride of LIFE,

is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides for ever" (I John 2:15-17).

Notice that "…ALL that is in the world…"—all the sins of the world, have their origin in one of these three categories of sin that proceeds "out of THE HEART." Not out of the "will" or out of the "mind," but "out of THE HEART." The "will" and the "mind" are subject to the "heart," and not the other way around. The heart is not subject to the will, neither is the heart subject to the mind, but rather both of these are subject to the birthplace of all human functions—the HEART!

Simply and unarguably, Jesus states as a fact, that all evil thoughts and sins proceed OUT OF THE HEART.

Now, with all that said, let’s prove once and for all that Mother Eve and Adam were (1) NOT spiritually perfect in any way shape or form, BEFORE they actually ate of the forbidden fruit, and (2) neither did they sin and then partake of the forbidden fruit through the operation of something called "free will."

"And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD… Gen. 3:6:

"…lust of the FLESH…" (I John 2:15)
 
and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES… Gen. 3:6:

"…lust of the EYES…" (I John 2:15)
 
and a tree to be DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE Gen. 3:6:

"…the PRIDE OF LIFE" (I John 2;15)

Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… BEFORE she actually ate of the forbidden fruit.

ALL of Eve’s evil thoughts of pride, vanity, lust, greed, disobedience, and finally thievery proceeded NOT from Eve’s supposed "free will," but rather from out of her HEART. And the only reason these sins could come out of her heart is because THEY WERE ALREADY IN THERE FROM THE BEGINNING. BEFORE Eve actually ate of the forbidden fruit, she committed every category of sin in the world. And need I remind us that we were also, ALL IN ADAM, before he ate of the tree (I Cor. 15:22). Will we deny our own eyes and the Scriptures we have just read?


This was my reference point.

Also we do not come to Christ through our own choice. He came to us while yet we were sinners. Now some of us are, as Kat's references show....some of us are still in the world but not of it anymore.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2007, 08:12:20 PM »

Hello John9362

It is a pleasure to point out the direction and who to follow and who not to follow. I follow Christ and His teachings that speak to my heart and soul setting me free that are transmitted through our beloved teacher who comes in the name of the Lord.....that being Ray of course :D !

I encourage you to continue in your study of the BT truths that are backed by scripture not heresay or opinion that is not based on certainty or fact.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2007, 08:17:38 PM »

Hello MG

You wrote : What I do and say and think are all friut.

I see a scripture in that!....Jesus said " Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."Matt 12 : 34

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 08:19:11 PM by Arcturus »
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iris

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2007, 09:33:07 PM »

From Lake of Fire Part 15 A



LOVE NOT THE WORLD—THREE CATEGORIES OF SIN

"Love NOT the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father IS NOT IN HIM. For [for means ‘because’] ALL that is in the world,

the lust of the FLESH,

the lust of the EYES,

and the pride of LIFE,

is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides for ever" (I John 2:15-17).

Notice that "…ALL that is in the world…"—all the sins of the world, have their origin in one of these three categories of sin that proceeds "out of THE HEART." Not out of the "will" or out of the "mind," but "out of THE HEART." The "will" and the "mind" are subject to the "heart," and not the other way around. The heart is not subject to the will, neither is the heart subject to the mind, but rather both of these are subject to the birthplace of all human functions—the HEART!

Simply and unarguably, Jesus states as a fact, that all evil thoughts and sins proceed OUT OF THE HEART.

Now, with all that said, let’s prove once and for all that Mother Eve and Adam were (1) NOT spiritually perfect in any way shape or form, BEFORE they actually ate of the forbidden fruit, and (2) neither did they sin and then partake of the forbidden fruit through the operation of something called "free will."

"And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD… Gen. 3:6:

"…lust of the FLESH…" (I John 2:15)
 
and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES… Gen. 3:6:

"…lust of the EYES…" (I John 2:15)
 
and a tree to be DESIRED TO MAKE ONE WISE Gen. 3:6:

"…the PRIDE OF LIFE" (I John 2;15)

Eve committed EVERY CATEGORY OF SIN THERE IS IN THE WORLD, before… BEFORE she actually ate of the forbidden fruit.

ALL of Eve’s evil thoughts of pride, vanity, lust, greed, disobedience, and finally thievery proceeded NOT from Eve’s supposed "free will," but rather from out of her HEART. And the only reason these sins could come out of her heart is because THEY WERE ALREADY IN THERE FROM THE BEGINNING. BEFORE Eve actually ate of the forbidden fruit, she committed every category of sin in the world. And need I remind us that we were also, ALL IN ADAM, before he ate of the tree (I Cor. 15:22). Will we deny our own eyes and the Scriptures we have just read?


This was my reference point.

Also we do not come to Christ through our own choice. He came to us while yet we were sinners. Now some of us are, as Kat's references show....some of us are still in the world but not of it anymore.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)



John 6:44 no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Iris
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DWIGHT

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2007, 02:32:37 AM »

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 

How many times has Ray said, "we are sinning machines?"  We don't even have to try, we just do it because it is our nature to sin.  Arcturus is right, all that embodies sin is in those three things; lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life.  However, now that we are in the Spirit we are no longer slaves to sin as Kat has said, but that surely doesn't mean that we don't sin.  Look what John just said, "IF we walk in the light......."  That's the big word..IF, but if we don't, we sin.

When the diciples asked Jesus how to pray, He said,"......and forgives us are sins...." knowing that we would still sin.  We are not perfect yet even so God wants us to be perfect, holy and without spot or blemish.  But true salvation and being born again won't happen until we enter the Kingdom.  We are still running the race, we are still fighting the good fight, we are still pressing toward the mark, we are still being transformed by the renewing of minds, we are still presenting our bodies a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God, we are still being tried in the fire and much more.  God is not done with us yet; not till he crushes us all to powder!

Sin is sin, and maybe sometimes it does not seem like sin to us or others but it is still sin.  That's why we must confess our sins daily even though we think that we have not sinned....remember we are sinning machines.....don't be deceived.

Just my thoughts.

In Him,

Dwight

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2007, 03:42:49 AM »

No Dwight

.....not just your thoughts.....HIS thoughts through HIS renewal of your mind....His words through the light of His spirit in you!

I like what Ray sometimes says in his e-mails and I think we can,.... especially me....can learn to do also...Ray often asks for two scriptures to show what he is teaching is not correct. Example....give me two scriptures that say sin is not sin....and I will change my stance!.... :D and yes, until we are born again, we are all sinning machines!....until we are born again and for now we are only beggoten.


Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 03:51:52 AM by Arcturus »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2007, 03:57:52 AM »

Hello Iris

John 6:44 no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


That really fits in with how I am seeing this topic too. There is no free will!....nothing we can do....we can not will ourselves into grace or self righteousness.

Peace to you

Arcturus
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Redbird

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Re: What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2007, 07:35:18 AM »

Proverbs 21; 1-2  The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.  Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts.

Proverbs 4; 23  Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

These are the verses that come to mind when I read this - thought I would share these with you all!

Peace in Christ,

Lisa
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