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What Sin Is To a Believer (Who Has Christ's Spirit in Him or Her.)
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Kat
Ray points out ; It will be done when it's God's time to do it.....and when it is done in God's time...then all the do's and don'ts will be CONSEQUENCES and not GOALS!
This, for me is very important. If we look at the scripture instructions and promises as being what God's Will, that will be done....then
just take the Scriptures you were inspired to write on this thread as bieng what will be our inheritance one day because of Jesus Christ! This inheritance that He shares is what we will be and you can get pretty happy about it and very much more expectant for His return! 8)
I am glad you understood that my caution was against slumber land of the soul that looses sight of this hope we do well to guard as a deposit entrusted to us....and which we all will guard because God wills us to guard it, and we will be what God wills us to be....and as Ray writes that this will be done!
Heb 5 : 11 Concerning this we have much to say which is hard to explain, since you have become dull in your spiritual hearing and sluggish even slothful in achieving spiritual insight...... this tells me that one day we will be sharp in our spiritual hearing and vital and energised and we will enjoy spiritual insight!......a consequence....not a goal.....a hope and a reward for the chosen!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
YellowStone:
Once again I will attempt to put my two cents worth in.
I must say that I am becomming a little discouraged :(
I wrote in good faith the following a few posts back, yet no one seen fit to respond to it.
However, we all live according to Gods will; if one see's an action as sinful and one doesn't, then it is by the perspective that God alone has given them, lest any should boast.
So my good friends, let us not focus on the negative of sin, but rather on love which is in the greatest two commandments.
Praise be to God and be gracious to him for everything
I will be open and honest here, and if a moderator decides this message should be removed then so be it. However, my brothers and sisters. It is my opinion that in the quest for spiritual enlightenment, many are seemingly no longer seeing the beauty of the forest because there are SO many trees in the way.
The forest is so full of God's love for us. Before one begins to "correct" a single sentence that is written (incorrectly in their eyes) why not first comment on the rest of the post and provide encouragement? Is not what I posted what it is all about?
Are we building each other up, or are we more focused on getting ones point across. I have read this entire thread and I do not find any misinterpretations of Scripture which is great; however, please never, ever let thae fact that God sacrificed his only begotten Son in order that any sin ever comitted will be forgiven and that no person shall ever truly die.
God has provided a Wonderful place in which we can fellowship together and lift one another up; so let us always praise God for everthing he has given us.
I want to close this with a Scripture and few worrds from Kahlil Gibran. :)
1Jo 4:16 [li]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.[/li]
[/list]
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; fr love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather "I am in the heart of God."
And think not not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness
To be wounded by your own understanding of love; and to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate in loves ecstacy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to slepp with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise on your lips.
Kahlil Gibran - The Prophet, 1923
So my beloved brothers and sisters, God is the forest and we are in him :) Let us never become to focused on a single tree at the expense of the warm loving sunshine, filtering down through the trees, etc, etc.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I pray that no one is offended by this post.
Love from a brother,
Darren
Robin:
Darren.
I always appreciate your posts. I would hope that my posts never appear to be a judgment of others. That is never a thought in my mind when posting. I try to share from my personal experience and not from my own interpretation of what a scripture means. I believe we are witnesses of what God has done in our lives. If I've witnessed it myself I feel free to share about it. I purposely do not post on topics that would cause me to come up with my own interpretation. I've been wrong too many times to risk that unless it's a question I might need to ask and share what I believe to receive correction if needed.
With that said I would like to comment on what Kat posted using my personal experience again.
Right before leaving the church around 15 years ago I was involved in a bible study. The study was on the book titled "They Found the Secret" by V. Raymond Edman
Book Description
This book presents the lives of twenty well-known and little-known Christians in search of the pattern which leads to the abundant life Jesus promised.
From the Back Cover
"The exchanged life." Hudson Taylor first used the term to describe what it means to know Christ as our sufficiency in all things. Taylor is but one of the many Christian luminaries who have discovered Christ as the secret to abundant living. John Bunyan, Andrew Murray, Amy Carmichael, Oswald Chambers, Charles Finney-behind the varied lives and personalities of these and other men and women lies a common theme, a pattern that leads from desperation to the abundant life Jesus promised. From their stories, we too can find the path to deeper faith and a more vital relationship with God. In They Found the Secret, Raymond Edman presents the lives of twenty well-known and little-known Christians. "The details of their experience of the crisis of the deeper life are delightfully different," Edman writes, "yet their testimony to the reality of the joy and power of the Spirit-filled life is unanimous . . . It is [the Lord] who satisfies the longing soul. He is the secret of the exchanged life!"
The teaching in the book was that we are dead to sin and no longer enslaved by it. We exchange our life for Christ's life in us and walk in newness of life. All we have to do is appropriate all that Christ has already done by faith. I was enslaved to sin in a relationship when I was going through this study. God made it clear to me that he wanted me to leave the relationship and I just couldn't do it. I tried so hard. I started trying to appropriate being free from this sin by walking in the spirit instead of the flesh. I would say over and over again I am dead to sin and no longer have to live in it. I failed miserably therefore I was labeled as having no faith. God used my failure to teach me I had no free will and teach me that I was "the beast". I was torn between 2 desires. To please God and to have the love that I had always dreamed of having by staying in this relationship. I was being torn in half in a tug of war. God finally won that war and it had nothing to do with effort on my part. He put to death the canal mind and the desires that kept me in bondage.
if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body ye put to death, ye shall live
This process has been more complicated than just appropriating a truth by faith. God put me through an intense process that dealt with the cause of my carnal desires that were causing my slavery to these particular sins. I am still going through an intense process.
If our minds are ruled by our desires, we will die. But if our minds are ruled by the Spirit, we will have life and peace.
Somewhere Ray wrote or said that we do not have the freewill to change our desires. We can only choose from our desires or something close to that. Only God can change our desires. In my experience that means the death of my carnal mind and that has been a long process that is out of my control. I have been blind to most of it until God shows it to me. I can't fix what I can't see and even then I can't fix it. I confess it when God shows it to me. I tell him the truth about who I am and pray that his will be done. I confess that I grumble a lot through the process and I don't have life or peace yet. My mind is still ruled by carnal desires or I wouldn't be grumbling so much. I still smoke and have failed at many attempts to quit. My carnal mind still tries to save itself. I still must die.
Romans 8:7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
I could write books about the work that God has completed in me. I am not the same person I used to be. I am a walking miracle. It still seems like a bottomless pit of carnal mind though. I am not content in all things. I grumble about a lot of things. I am not enduring suffering well. May God forgive me and bring me to repentance in all things.
YellowStone:
M.G. What a wonderful post. This is what is so amazing to me about the truth. Not what will happen, but what IS happening to each and everyone of us NOW. :)
I just cannot get this scripture out of my mind or my heart.
Rom 1:20
* For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I certainly am no scholar so I may be very wrong with this reasoning, but I never read anywhere that one needed to read the Scriptures in order to know God? Is it there? I feel (andhow can I "feel" on my own?) that Christianity as a whole failed because egos and pride. This is a WONDERFUL site, and I am sure that many, many more visit this forum than ever post. This is so sad. Of course God has not led to post otherwise they surely would.
I am beginning to realize that I have not let go of me nearly as much as I had thought. When have I ever thanked God in this forum for the air he gave me to breath today, or for the friends that I seen or made this week. God has given me everything I need and I have never been so gracious or grateful that he found me worthy to as part of this forum.
We are within God, as much as he is within us. That is very sobering thought; how dare I feel prideful of what I have learned or accomplished? It is all to Him, he has taught me so much and like you, even when I wasn't ready or didn't want to.
We are in God, yet we squabble over an interpretation of Scripture as if by some magic, we "reasoned" it out all on our own! ::)
I can totally relate to Davids following words.
Psa 23:1 The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want.
Psa 23:2 color=Blue]He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. [/color]
Psa 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Psa 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
We are all walking through the valley of the shadow of death....as brothers and sisters. Certainly their are many more knowledgable than I in Spiritual matters and I have learned ever so much from most everyone on the forum; like you M.G. I too have changed. I now know that God is everywhere and everything is in him and as David said: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Others will surely see that we are indeed disciples of Christ through our love for each other.
This is the truth as I see it, praise be to God.
Love,
Darren
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello MG
I see what you see. 8)
Darren
You note : I never read anywhere that one needed to read the Scriptures in order to know God?
We are called to “Come out of her, my people so that you may not share in her sins, neither participate in her plagues.” Rev 18 : 4 this refers to Mystery Babylon reference Rev 18 : 2 ...that we understand to be Christendom where the Scriptures are preached 1 Cor 1 : 21 For after that in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Looking at the scripture you posted, lets see what love means in the verses you presented.
Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love ( Agapao {25} All references are from Annotated Strong’s Greek Dictionary. It differes from phileo {5368} meaning to love indicating feelings, warm affection, the kind of love expressed by a kiss. The fut. Imper., agapeseis, especially in regard to one’s enemies, should not necessarily be taken to mean doing that which will please them, but choosing to show them favour and goodwill. In 2 Cor 12 : 15 it means, “even if, having conferred greater benefits on you, I receive less from you” ) one another; as I have loved ( Agapao) you, that ye also love (Agapao) one another.
Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love (Agape {26} one to another.
Phileo {5360} fraternal affection; - brotherly love, kindness, love of the brethren. In the NT, used only of the love of Christians one to another, brotherly love out of a common spiritual life. Rom 12 : 10; 1Th 4 : 9 ; heb 13 :1 ; 1 Pe 1 :22; 2 Pe 1:7 In the NT only in the strictly Christian sense of loving each other as Christian brothers.
A quick search on the net reveals this regarding Kahlil Gibran :
Juliet Thompson, one of Khalil Gibran's acquaintances, said that Gibran told her that he thought of `Abdu'l-Bahá, the divine leader of the Bahá'í Faith in his lifetime, all the way through writing The Prophet. `Abdu'l-Bahá's personage also influenced Jesus, The Son of Man, another book by Gibran.
Gibran's best-known work is The Prophet, a book composed of 26 poetic essays. During the 1960s, The Prophet became especially popular with the American counterculture and New Age movements. The Prophet remains famous to this day, with passages often read at weddings and christenings.
I think Gibran had his priorities back to front. Jesus Christ is the corner stone not Abdul ...whats his name? :D
In reference to your comment : I must say that I am becomming a little discouraged
I wrote in good faith the following a few posts back, yet no one seen fit to respond to it.
Here is some wisdom from Joe that might help you : Don't ever be discouraged by those who think they know more than they do, the one lesson they can always teach is how not to be, how not to act. They also teach us how to provide a better example to others by us being steady, uplifting, forgiving and positive. Usually the exact opposite of what they may be displaying. All lessons for our betterment, all in developing the fruits of the spirit.
There are many times I have been inspired to write on a particular subject, a powerful motivation that does not rest until I present the subject, I must admit there was a time it would frustrate me when the topic would only get a few responses then promptly fade into oblivion, then He revealed to me that sometimes these messages of ours (His really) are sometimes meant for only one or maybe a few readers who need that particular admonishment at that time in their walk and that it is not anything I should seek approval or confirmation of, if I seek these things my motivation needs a serious adjustment.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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